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Powerhound_2000
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What robb8888 posted how each Character Card of the Sentinels got a choice of a power use or health gain.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Powerhound_2000
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The reason it works that way is because Proverbs and Axioms specifies Hero Character Card and the Sentinels has four Hero Character Cards. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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If I'm not mistaken, it's even better.

Each Sentinel gets to either heal by 2 or deal themselves 3 damage to have the Sentinels collectively use a power.

So for example, you could have Mainstay and Idealist pick heal. Then have Medico deal himself 3 (becoming healing) to let Idealist use Telekinetic Jab. Then, have Writhe deal himself 3 (redirected) damage to let Mainstay use block.

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You are mistaken.


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Arcanist Lupus wrote:

Which way is "that way"?

Each Sentinel gets the choice of healing 2 HP or taking 3 damage and using a power.  The wording of Proverbs and Axioms reads:  "Each hero character card [as opposed to "each hero"] may either regain 2 HP or deal themselves 3 psychic damage and use a power."

In the context of the actual One-Shot (a Vengeance match against, among others, Advanced Fright Train), it was just sick.  Advanced Fright Train channels "all hero damage" to himself.  That includes -- as it turns out -- damage the heroes inflict upon themselves.  

I had Scholar play Proverbs and Axioms on the very first turn; with *eight* "hero character cards" in play (Guise, Wraith, Tach, Scholar, and four Sentinels), that was eight extra power usages, with three damage for each usage inflicted on Fright Train.  The Sentinels had previously played one of their AOE cards; between that and Proverbs, Fright Train went down before the environment's first play.

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MigrantP wrote:

You are mistaken.

Are you sure? I just replicated in the video game. Should I send a bug report?

 

Here's the relevant portion of my log file:

Edit: that formating looked awful see attachment.
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arenson9
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MigrantP wrote:

You are mistaken.

I wasn't sure who you were saying is mistaken.


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

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This thread seems to be suffering from a lack of specificity in its statements. :D


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Arcanist Lupus wrote:

This thread seems to be suffering from a lack of specificity in its statements. :D


If only there was some sort of feature that one could click to allow everyone to know who the poster is responding to. Perhaps it'll be added in th massive website update?
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Unlikely 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
MigrantP
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arenson9 wrote:

 

MigrantP wrote:
You are mistaken.

 

I wasn't sure who you were saying is mistaken.

The person who said directly above my post, "If I'm not mistaken." Sorry I thought that was clear.

Dandolo, that would be a bug.


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No need to send in a bug report - I reproduced it locally and we'll get it fixed.


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Dandolo wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, it's even better.

Each Sentinel gets to either heal by 2 or deal themselves 3 damage to have the Sentinels collectively use a power.

So for example, you could have Mainstay and Idealist pick heal. Then have Medico deal himself 3 (becoming healing) to let Idealist use Telekinetic Jab. Then, have Writhe deal himself 3 (redirected) damage to let Mainstay use block.

Yeah, as I understand it, first, if Medico's damage becomes healing, it doesn't trigger Sentinels Tactics, because he didn't deal any damage.

And even if he could, it only triggers the first time a turn, so Writhe's self-damage couldn't let Mainstay use block.

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No, but he "dealt himself damage" to use a power, per Proverbs and Axioms. There's no Rule 15 wording, so it works. Medico and Writhe aren't activating Sentinel Tactics, which is where you guys are getting mixed up. They're just doing what they are supposed to because of Proverbs and Axioms!

And since it doesn't say use a power ON THAT CHARACTER CARD, when Medico tries to deal himself damage, The Sentinels get to use any power, Including The Idealist's. Then HER damage triggers Block with Sentinel Tactics. Then Writhe deals himself damage per P&A -- which may or may not get redirected -- to trigger M.D.

There's no bug there. Each power is used once, and every card is obeyed. You're mistaking the powers from P&A as being multiple uses of Sentinel Tactics, which is not the case.

It is working as it should be. Do not change it.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

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Per MigrantP and I'm assuming this will be laid out in Fireside Chats if the individual Sentinels member chooses to take damage then that individual member can use the power on their character card, a power on a card attached to them, or a power of a card in the Sentinels play area.  In other words, I can't have Idealist take the damage then have Mainstay use a power off of that.   The self damage would trigger Sentinels Tactics if it's in play but if Idealist uses her base power off of that then likely she has no other powers she can use for Proverbs and Axioms.


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Right. That's exactly the situation laid out.
Mainstay heals. Idealist heals. Medico takes damage (which becomes heals) to use a power. He uses Idealist's power. Tactics triggers, allowing him to use M.D. Then Writhe takes damage (which gets redirected away) and uses Block.

No double dipping on powers or Tactics. It follows the rules, and is NOT A BUG.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

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McBehrer wrote:

Right. That's exactly the situation laid out.
Mainstay heals. Idealist heals. Medico takes damage (which becomes heals) to use a power. He uses Idealist's power. Tactics triggers, allowing him to use M.D. Then Writhe takes damage (which gets redirected away) and uses Block.

No double dipping on powers or Tactics. It follows the rules, and is NOT A BUG.

No.  What you listed out wouldn't work.   If Mainstay heals, Idealist heals, then Medico chooses to take the damage and Hippocratic Oath is out then Medico heals a target and can use the power on his character card.  Then Writhe has his choice on healing or taking damage.   If Hippocratic Oath isn't out when Medico decides to take the damage then Sentinel Tactics triggers and you can choose to use any of the Sentinels powers.  If you chose Medico's power due to Sentinel Tactics then he likely has no power option.   

This should work along the same lines as Gung Ho.   The individual Sentinels member which gets healed can only use the power on their character card.  

I'm assuming in both of these cases that none of the Sentinels have any cards attached to them or in their play area that grants another choice for a power.  

MigrantP has also already confirmed in this thread it should work the way I've laid out and what happens in the video game currently is a bug.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
McBehrer
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That's literally the opposite of what you just said 2 posts ago.

Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Per MigrantP and I'm assuming this will be laid out in Fireside Chats... In other words, I can have Idealist take the damage to have Mainstay use a power.

And now you say that's NOT the case. Which is it? Block is in Medico's play area, and they're the same hero, so why COULDN'T that work?


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

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Because....comic books? (Is this the right thread?)


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
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McBehrer wrote:

That's literally the opposite of what you just said 2 posts ago.

 

Powerhound_2000 wrote:
Per MigrantP and I'm assuming this will be laid out in Fireside Chats... In other words, I can have Idealist take the damage to have Mainstay use a power.

 

 

And now you say that's NOT the case. Which is it? Block is in Medico's play area, and they're the same hero, so why COULDN'T that work?

Thats a typo on part.   It should say this:

I can't have Idealist take the damage and then have Mainstay use a power.

I will try editing it but I don't know who will see it  

 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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It's been a while since we had a good juicy rules argument on this forum.  I can't wait for OblivAeon!  :D  


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Dr. Medico can't use the Idealist's power because he's not the Idealist and her power is not on his card. Writhe can't use Block because he's not Mainstay and the power is not on his card.

By the wording of the card, you, the player, are not using the power -- the character card is.

And the character card can't use a power on a different character card.

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In addition, with Proverbs and Axioms, when you let Dr. Medico deal himself 3 damage and use a power with Hippocratic Oath in play, he heals someone for 3 and then still gets to use his power.

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Natediggadoggity wrote:

In addition, with Proverbs and Axioms, when you let Dr. Medico deal himself 3 damage and use a power with Hippocratic Oath in play, he heals someone for 3 and then still gets to use his power.

Yeah, that isn't what's up for debate. It's whether or not he triggers HIS power, or THE SENTINELS to use a power.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Trajector
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Are the other Sentinels' character cards not cards (with powers on them) in Doctor Medico's play area?

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Quote for emphasis:

Powerhound_2000 wrote:

if the individual Sentinels member chooses to take damage then that individual member can use the power on their character card, a power on a card attached to them, or a power of a card in the Sentinels play area.  

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Trajector wrote:

Quote for emphasis:

Powerhound_2000 wrote:
if the individual Sentinels member chooses to take damage then that individual member can use the power on their character card, a power on a card attached to them, or a power of a card in the Sentinels play area.  

 

 

By play area I'm talking about something that would give a power to use like Rod of Anubis not other character cards.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
McBehrer
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He does have a point though. The rules don't make the distinction. It's The Sentinels using a power. They have 4 to choose from.

In fact, that's how it HAS to be for Tactics to work, otherwise Idealist's power could never trigger any of the other powers; it would only allow HER to use a power.

But The character cards aren't what use powers, it's the Sentinels as a conglomerate hero.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

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Sentinel Tactics say "You may use a power" which is why you can use any power.   For Proverbs and Axioms much like Gung Ho a hero character card is chosen of the Sentinels and only that hero character card can use a power.  Another example would be playing Embolden on a member of the Sentinels as it goes next to a hero character card so only that hero can use a power and only that hero takes the damage.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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That sounds bizarre, there is nothing in the rules to say that should be the case for gung ho, P&A nor embolden, it's incredibly counter intuitive if that is how they're meant to be.
Powers are on cards in a play area, when you get to use a power you use whatever is available in your play area. Mechanically it doesn't make sense to throw in an additional rule restricting that, the game is clunky enough as it is in regards to phrasing, and there's very little thematic reasoning either.
The simpler things can be kept the better.

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I love Setback, but I was trying to think of how Guise can interact with him, since Setback's play is dominated by his unlucky tokens, and playing them together means Guise needs to build up unlucky tokens first, which would slow down the play and their interactions a lot. BUT! I finally thought of a good one that shouldn't take too much time invested into setup.:

Guise uses "Yeah I'm That Guy" to copy Setback while he has "Friendly Fire" in play, and then plays "Total Beefcake". This allows every hero to get an extra 2 damage dealt to the nonhero target with the lowest hp every turn.

And now I can't wait to try it out in the video game.

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... and one more. Fanatic loves an augmented ally (Captain Cosmic) if she has a prayer of desperation in hand. She can discard at the beginning of her turn to use her power, and then pray for desperation to draw back up to 6 cards. making the discard not a hardship in the least.

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Had a revelation when trying to fill out the My Turn 2 for Absolute Zero vs. AoG Spite.  Normally, Compound Upsilon bounces most of the ongoings back into their owners' hands at the start of Spite's turn, so if you put out anything protective, it's gone when it comes time for him to deal damage at the end of his turn.  But with Sub-Zero Atmosphere in play, all the damage happens at the start of the turn, too!  It depends on when the drugs come into play, but I got Upsilon out last, so Spite tried to deal me damage first and failed, then Ground Pound went back into Haka's hand to be reused next round.  Pure gold.


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Just remember to not let Sub Zero Atmosphere get bounced back to your hand. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Trajector
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You can get around Immutus with Wrest the Mind. Choose to direct the damage to Immutus first, and then have Visionary redirect to whomever she likes!

I just made L'Epeiste finish off La Capitan with a 25-point zap this way.

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The way redirection works in this game is often surprising. Smoke Bombs, for instance, will give Sky-Scraper a straight extra point of DR with Thorathian Monolith if she's the lowest HP.

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Everyone knows how much Absolute Zero loves Visionary's Twist the Ether: stick it on the villain, and if they're focused on AZ, you can heal him or make him retaliate to damage at will. Well, I found a way to make this even better.

Give Absolute Zero Coolant Blast, and stick Twist the Ether on Xtreme Prime Wardens Argent Adept. He can then use his main power to heal AZ for 3, sure, but if he actually deals the damage -- the fire damage -- AZ can then heal himself (or deal damage!), play a card, and use Coolant Blast to dish out even more for his power usage. And since CB tracks fire damage until the end of your turn, if Argent goes after him and you're lucky enough to have a second TtE on the villain, you can rack up quite a lot of fire damage over one round, which means plenty of cold damage when it gets back to Absolute Zero. :3

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I thought the Xtreme Prime Wardens aren't in the Video Game yet?

TakeWalker
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Is this just for video game stuff? :B Oops.

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carnilius wrote:

I thought the Xtreme Prime Wardens aren't in the Video Game yet?

 

Unfortunately, that would be correct. *Locks self in closet and cries*

2.5 minutes later - *Stops crying*

5 seconds later - *Remembers that there are other variants besides the Xtreme PWs not in the video game and cries some more*

1 minute later - *Wishes I had the Mr. Chomps plushie to comfort me as I cry, inducing even more tears*

Undetermined time in the future - *Gets Mr. Chomps plushie and the variant heroes + OblivAeon heroes in real life and the video game and stops crying*

 

For unexpected combinations - Guise can build up his own unlucky pool using Uh...Yeah I'm that Guy on Setback. If Setback also happens to have Uncharmed Life out, Guise and Setback can fight over who takes damage, as apparently the wording does not stop it from acting after the first use. If it is a glitch and Uncharmed Life should only be used once, then there is a bug in the video game.


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I had a fun and long game once where Guise kept building up his unlucky pool over the course of a long game to something like 20, then toward the end, using UYITG again after Setback had gotten High-Risk Behavior out.

There were no (Villainous) survivors.

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TakeWalker wrote:

The way redirection works in this game is often surprising. Smoke Bombs, for instance, will give Sky-Scraper a straight extra point of DR with Thorathian Monolith if she's the lowest HP.

How are multiple redirection instances treated, rules-wise?   Although I can't think of specific circumstances, I know there have been many times in which I have seen multiple redirection effects in play; in some of these instances, the game has allowed me to choose which one actually takes effect, in others, the game ostensibly offers me a choice, but still redirects the damage one particular way.

Here's an example:  Let's say that Lead from the Front (LFTF) (Legacy) and Alchemical Redirection (AR) (Scholar) are both in play, and a villain attempts to do damage to a hero target that is not Legacy or Scholar.  Lead from the Front says: "Whenever a Hero Target would be dealt Damage by a Villain card, you may redirect that Damage to Legacy. "  Alchemical Redirection reads:  "Redirect all Damage that would be dealt to Hero Targets to The Scholar."  

Which takes precedence, and why?  Does it matter which one was played first?  Does one always trump the other, or is it possible to choose between effects?  For example, if for some reason it is better for Legacy to take the damage, it possible to elect that?  The iOS version of the game usually says something like "Which of these do you want to take effect first?"  -- which should be chosen to ensure that the final damage goes to Legacy?

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robb8888 wrote:

 

TakeWalker wrote:
The way redirection works in this game is often surprising. Smoke Bombs, for instance, will give Sky-Scraper a straight extra point of DR with Thorathian Monolith if she's the lowest HP.

 

How are multiple redirection instances treated, rules-wise?   Although I can't think of specific circumstances, I know there have been many times in which I have seen multiple redirection effects in play; in some of these instances, the game has allowed me to choose which one actually takes effect, in others, the game ostensibly offers me a choice, but still redirects the damage one particular way.Here's an example:  Let's say that Lead from the Front (Legacy) and Alchemical Redirection (Scholar) are both in play, and a villain attempts to do damage to a hero target that is not Legacy or Scholar.  Lead from the Front says: "Whenever a Hero Target would be dealt Damage by a Villain card, you may redirect that Damage to Legacy. "  Alchemical Redirection reads:  "Redirect all Damage that would be dealt to Hero Targets to The Scholar."  Which takes precedence, and why?

I haven't specifically tested this, but the game should allow you to redirect it to Legacy if you would like to. However, if any damage would be deal to Legacy because of Lead, it will inevitably redirect to Scholar regardless because Alchemical Redirection is a "must" and not a "may" as opposed to Legacy's being a "may". In the case of two "musts" I have no idea, it likely is dependant upon other circumstances and wordings.


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Neither do, you would pick the order of the redirection. So if you pick Lead from the Front first, then The Scholar would take damage as Alchemical Redirection would trigger next. If you did it the opposite way, the Legacy would get the choice to take the damage or not after it has been redirected to the Scholar. If yes we chosen, then Legacy would ultimately take the damage.

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The thing I've found about redirects in the game is that they all go off at the same time (assuming they're all valid; Smoke Bombs could undercut a Synaptic Redirection, for instance) and you can only apply each once per instance of damage.

Also, all damage goes to Immutus. :B

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TakeWalker wrote:

Also, all damage goes to Immutus. :B

Except when playing Challenge Mode Fright Train.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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And Guise.

But then to be fair, most situations end with Guise as an exception


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And that Wrest the Mind thing I mentioned.

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And my axe!

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I discovered the other day that you can use Into the Stratosphere to move a card from underneath Savage Mana to the top of the Villain deck.

I'm not sure *why* that might be useful, but there you go. My first thought was to use the same technique to un-charge Mad Bomber Blade, but his rules say cards under him have no type.

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