If you're game for trying modifications, why not take a shot playing against The Vengeful H-1?
Yeah, the last hero's job can be to run the Environment.
Ironic wrote:
lynkfox wrote:
(Tacyone Hypersonic Assult is great, but removes their drawback, other methods to neuter them are good)
No, it doesn't. Proletariat deals himself that damage, so turning off damage from the Clones doesn't keep him from dying. The same goes for Stun Bolts, Zealous Offensive, and so forth.
Unless Proletariat has armor, HSA will hit him too, so he won't be able to deal damage. (I say this not having seen the V5, maybe I'm speaking stupidness.)
"I'm starting to feel comic books lack realism."
"Master of Understatement: Level Up!"
--Two nearly-consecutive (in the other order) quotes from the webcomic "Grrl Power".
If there are ever zero clones, kill Proletariat before he inevitably manages to draw Everyman's Strength the next turn.
He's the weakest of the Five without it, but that card makes him a nightmare. And he always gets it one turn after absorbing all his buddies. I suspect witchcraft.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
Played them a couple of weeks ago and had a first round End of Days, followed by By Any Means played on Friction so she kept nuking herself for Even More Damage. That helped. The other two were Proletariat (who kept nuking his own clones and thus wasn't too much of a threat) and Ermine (whom we prioritised due to all her stuff-destruction). Can't remember which environment we used but we did win that one. We have lost against them too, though (not those same three as we randomise). I would agree that focusing fire on one specific villain is a good idea, as is taking out their starting gear - the Shock Dampeners are very good to get rid of, for example, as is that mutagen stuff that Blade starts with. If Ermine puts out that redirection ongoing then that's a priority target too. I expect that some of the nemesis minion guys may become priority targets in certain games if their nemesis is around as well.
(Tacyone Hypersonic Assult is great, but removes their drawback, other methods to neuter them are good)
No, it doesn't. Proletariat deals himself that damage, so turning off damage from the Clones doesn't keep him from dying. The same goes for Stun Bolts, Zealous Offensive, and so forth.
Unless Proletariat has armor, HSA will hit him too, so he won't be able to deal damage. (I say this not having seen the V5, maybe I'm speaking stupidness.)
This. :)
Unless the 'DR equal to number of proletariets in play on the lowest proletariet" is out, he probably will take the hypersonic assault :P
Won't he redirect the Hypersonic Assault hit to his clones, thus one of his clones will double not be able to deal damage instead of him?
Ding ding ding.
Honestly, I more often find myself worrying about how to keep clones alive than how to kill them, given Proletariat's garbage HP and thier moderate damage. The lowest HP one taking double damage from area effects is harsh!
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
There have been two PBF games against the V5 over at BGG. Both were victories, if you want to read through them to see how they were handled. (One game was against the new heroes from Vengeance, one was against the F5).
Won't he redirect the Hypersonic Assault hit to his clones, thus one of his clones will double not be able to deal damage instead of him?
Ding ding ding.Honestly, I more often find myself worrying about how to keep clones alive than how to kill them, given Proletariat's garbage HP and thier moderate damage. The lowest HP one taking double damage from area effects is harsh!
Having a super tank (Scholar with Flesh to Iron or the Naturalist in Rhino form) really helps as they mostly hit the highest and mostly for 2 damage (Fright Train or a sureged up Friction notwithstanding). But global damage and a very good tank work wonders. Naturalist is probably best, especially going after Ermine as he can get his trashed cards back so easily.
I'm guessing that the Sentinels really suffer against the V5 then?
"I'm starting to feel comic books lack realism."
"Master of Understatement: Level Up!"
--Two nearly-consecutive (in the other order) quotes from the webcomic "Grrl Power".
The V5 have relatively little damage to the lowest (and garbage for global damage effects), and outside of Fright Train, mostly only hit for 1-2 damage a pop. And you beat them by winning the damage race.
As such, a Hero who brings 52 HP, can mitigate damage, and can deal large amounts without setup is a godsend against them.
There is some risk of Blade just beating The Idealist to death, but at 2 HP per turn, it's nothing Medico can't handle.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
Not like you'd think.The V5 have relatively little damage to the lowest (and garbage for global damage effects), and outside of Fright Train, mostly only hit for 1-2 damage a pop. And you beat them by winning the damage race.As such, a Hero who brings 52 HP, can mitigate damage, and can deal large amounts without setup is a godsend against them.There is some risk of Blade just beating The Idealist to death, but at 2 HP per turn, it's nothing Medico can't handle.
Until Revenant comes out from Friction's deck when you're also play Setback (happened to us last night). Then BB has +2 damage and Idealist died fast
I'm guessing that the Sentinels really suffer against the V5 then?
No, the Sentinels are strong against the V5, because they do a lot of area damage. Personally, my impression is that they're easier with more Heroes, because it's easier to focus fire on them. I had a 3 player game against Baron Blade, Ermine and Proletariat in the Ruins of Atlantis yesterday, and keeping anything in play or in hand was a massive struggle. In a 4 player game, we'd have been more resistant to bad draws, and we could have taken out Ermine a lot earlier.
Also, I think if you spend more than 2 discretionary damage killing the Shock Dampeners, you're making a mistake. You should hit Friction with that damage instead. You don't want to leave her around so that she can blow up all your Ongoings or hit someone for 10.
Removing the Shock Dampeners is good. Pretty much everything Friction does hurts herself then.
It's good if you don't put any effort into it and let it happen all by itself. But spending actual single target damage on it is a waste of time. Instead of killing the Shock Dampeners, kill Friction.
Unless you can do it in one turn, removing the SD accelerates her passing. The V5 is a very target rich environment and depending on the game state, priorities can and will fluctuate from turn to turn.
On Advanced Erimine is a high priority target because until she goes away its hard to build up an offense. Have lots of ways to lockout damage (Tachyon, Legacy are big winners here) or lots of ways to deal crazy damage fast so you can either neuter Fright Train or just put him in a body bag.
Blade usually gets left for the end for us, his DR 2 devices and healing make him too tough a nut to crack until the end (and is also almost more fatal after being killed if Legacy is in play)
There are a number of ways to take on the V5 successfully, whether they are a full team or not.
1. Heroes with deck manipulation can be useful, but tend to be far less powerful than normal. This is because they can only look at one villain deck at a time, so where before they could spot trouble and help people steer clear, now they have to cherry pick the villain that they are spying on. However, the V5 have many ongoings that are horrible, so deck manipulation/control has its place in the sun!
2. Heroes with reliable AoE damage are spectacular. Tools, weapons, and powers that used to be overlooked can really come to the fore and save everyone. Expat's SMG, in particular, can be a godsend, especially loaded with Cryo rounds.
3. Tanky heroes can save everyone, as the villains tend to do damage in 1-2 point increments to the highest, and the H mechanic isn't used very often. So any hero that can take 2 points of damage without flinching can save everyone a world of hurt. It can sometimes be more useful to prioritize getting armor out than attack, as the interspaced nature of the turns means you'll be taking a lot of hits for the team while you wait for your next turn.
the naturalist and the Sentinels are especially fantastic against the V5. the naturalist because he can start tanking with Rhino from the very start (as he can search his deck for it), and the Sentinels in the later game. Mainstay's chains and Human shield can save everyone, and the V5 focus on high-HP targets (except for the baron) can help keep them alive until then. Plus, they have some absolutely wonderful AoE attacks.
4. Villain order:
Baron Blade: Take him out ASAP. he buffs everyone, hinders you, and generally makes the V5 stronger.
Friction: It can be tempting to leave her alone and let her kill herself, but she can hit SUPER hard if she gets enough stuff in her trash, strip away all your things, and make the baddies play more cards. If you can hinder her card play by taking out her gear with AoE attacks, go for it, but if you only have the one punch, aim it at her directly.
Ermine: She can make everyone lose their hand and can severely foul up planning. If you have people who can help get the cards you need, leave her be until the leaders are nullified. If she is limiting your options to the point where you can't do anything, then she has to go.
Proletariat: If his ongoings, particularly everyman's strength comes out, drop everything and put him (or the ongoings) down. If you can manage his clones through AoE, tanking, or are hitting with psychic damage (which he cannot redirect), then he is less of a priority.
Fright train hits hard, but if you can manage it save him for last because thats pretty much all he does. the caveat is that if you are in an environment with lots of high HP targets, you absolutely need to be prepared for a massive last stop.
0 Clones + Everymans Strength = Kill Proletariat first. Thats the only thing I know.
Yeah, the last hero's job can be to run the Environment.
Unless Proletariat has armor, HSA will hit him too, so he won't be able to deal damage. (I say this not having seen the V5, maybe I'm speaking stupidness.)
"I'm starting to feel comic books lack realism."
"Master of Understatement: Level Up!"
--Two nearly-consecutive (in the other order) quotes from the webcomic "Grrl Power".
If there are ever zero clones, kill Proletariat before he inevitably manages to draw Everyman's Strength the next turn.
He's the weakest of the Five without it, but that card makes him a nightmare. And he always gets it one turn after absorbing all his buddies. I suspect witchcraft.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
Played them a couple of weeks ago and had a first round End of Days, followed by By Any Means played on Friction so she kept nuking herself for Even More Damage. That helped. The other two were Proletariat (who kept nuking his own clones and thus wasn't too much of a threat) and Ermine (whom we prioritised due to all her stuff-destruction). Can't remember which environment we used but we did win that one. We have lost against them too, though (not those same three as we randomise). I would agree that focusing fire on one specific villain is a good idea, as is taking out their starting gear - the Shock Dampeners are very good to get rid of, for example, as is that mutagen stuff that Blade starts with. If Ermine puts out that redirection ongoing then that's a priority target too. I expect that some of the nemesis minion guys may become priority targets in certain games if their nemesis is around as well.
I am the Wordweaver...
Basically, I like writing stuff ;)
If I can ever convince my group to try Vengeance again (or if I'm crazy enough to try a solo V5) this advice should prove helpful.
But, seriously, this is the most useful thread on Vengeance I've seen so far.
Yak Guardian
(aka Michael)
R.I.P. Blake Washington
This. :)
Unless the 'DR equal to number of proletariets in play on the lowest proletariet" is out, he probably will take the hypersonic assault :P
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Won't he redirect the Hypersonic Assault hit to his clones, thus one of his clones will double not be able to deal damage instead of him?
Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all
yes, if a clone is out Proletariat will redirect instead.
Honestly, I more often find myself worrying about how to keep clones alive than how to kill them, given Proletariat's garbage HP and thier moderate damage. The lowest HP one taking double damage from area effects is harsh!
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
There have been two PBF games against the V5 over at BGG. Both were victories, if you want to read through them to see how they were handled. (One game was against the new heroes from Vengeance, one was against the F5).
oh yeah/
*Sheepish*
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Having a super tank (Scholar with Flesh to Iron or the Naturalist in Rhino form) really helps as they mostly hit the highest and mostly for 2 damage (Fright Train or a sureged up Friction notwithstanding). But global damage and a very good tank work wonders. Naturalist is probably best, especially going after Ermine as he can get his trashed cards back so easily.
G+ games: I am part of the 100%
I'm guessing that the Sentinels really suffer against the V5 then?
"I'm starting to feel comic books lack realism."
"Master of Understatement: Level Up!"
--Two nearly-consecutive (in the other order) quotes from the webcomic "Grrl Power".
Not like you'd think.
The V5 have relatively little damage to the lowest (and garbage for global damage effects), and outside of Fright Train, mostly only hit for 1-2 damage a pop. And you beat them by winning the damage race.
As such, a Hero who brings 52 HP, can mitigate damage, and can deal large amounts without setup is a godsend against them.
There is some risk of Blade just beating The Idealist to death, but at 2 HP per turn, it's nothing Medico can't handle.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
Until Revenant comes out from Friction's deck when you're also play Setback (happened to us last night). Then BB has +2 damage and Idealist died fast
No, the Sentinels are strong against the V5, because they do a lot of area damage. Personally, my impression is that they're easier with more Heroes, because it's easier to focus fire on them. I had a 3 player game against Baron Blade, Ermine and Proletariat in the Ruins of Atlantis yesterday, and keeping anything in play or in hand was a massive struggle. In a 4 player game, we'd have been more resistant to bad draws, and we could have taken out Ermine a lot earlier.
Also, I think if you spend more than 2 discretionary damage killing the Shock Dampeners, you're making a mistake. You should hit Friction with that damage instead. You don't want to leave her around so that she can blow up all your Ongoings or hit someone for 10.
Removing the Shock Dampeners is good. Pretty much everything Friction does hurts herself then.
It's good if you don't put any effort into it and let it happen all by itself. But spending actual single target damage on it is a waste of time. Instead of killing the Shock Dampeners, kill Friction.
Unless you can do it in one turn, removing the SD accelerates her passing. The V5 is a very target rich environment and depending on the game state, priorities can and will fluctuate from turn to turn.
On Advanced Erimine is a high priority target because until she goes away its hard to build up an offense. Have lots of ways to lockout damage (Tachyon, Legacy are big winners here) or lots of ways to deal crazy damage fast so you can either neuter Fright Train or just put him in a body bag.
Blade usually gets left for the end for us, his DR 2 devices and healing make him too tough a nut to crack until the end (and is also almost more fatal after being killed if Legacy is in play)
There are a number of ways to take on the V5 successfully, whether they are a full team or not.
1. Heroes with deck manipulation can be useful, but tend to be far less powerful than normal. This is because they can only look at one villain deck at a time, so where before they could spot trouble and help people steer clear, now they have to cherry pick the villain that they are spying on. However, the V5 have many ongoings that are horrible, so deck manipulation/control has its place in the sun!
2. Heroes with reliable AoE damage are spectacular. Tools, weapons, and powers that used to be overlooked can really come to the fore and save everyone. Expat's SMG, in particular, can be a godsend, especially loaded with Cryo rounds.
3. Tanky heroes can save everyone, as the villains tend to do damage in 1-2 point increments to the highest, and the H mechanic isn't used very often. So any hero that can take 2 points of damage without flinching can save everyone a world of hurt. It can sometimes be more useful to prioritize getting armor out than attack, as the interspaced nature of the turns means you'll be taking a lot of hits for the team while you wait for your next turn.
the naturalist and the Sentinels are especially fantastic against the V5. the naturalist because he can start tanking with Rhino from the very start (as he can search his deck for it), and the Sentinels in the later game. Mainstay's chains and Human shield can save everyone, and the V5 focus on high-HP targets (except for the baron) can help keep them alive until then. Plus, they have some absolutely wonderful AoE attacks.
4. Villain order:
Baron Blade: Take him out ASAP. he buffs everyone, hinders you, and generally makes the V5 stronger.
Friction: It can be tempting to leave her alone and let her kill herself, but she can hit SUPER hard if she gets enough stuff in her trash, strip away all your things, and make the baddies play more cards. If you can hinder her card play by taking out her gear with AoE attacks, go for it, but if you only have the one punch, aim it at her directly.
Ermine: She can make everyone lose their hand and can severely foul up planning. If you have people who can help get the cards you need, leave her be until the leaders are nullified. If she is limiting your options to the point where you can't do anything, then she has to go.
Proletariat: If his ongoings, particularly everyman's strength comes out, drop everything and put him (or the ongoings) down. If you can manage his clones through AoE, tanking, or are hitting with psychic damage (which he cannot redirect), then he is less of a priority.
Fright train hits hard, but if you can manage it save him for last because thats pretty much all he does. the caveat is that if you are in an environment with lots of high HP targets, you absolutely need to be prepared for a massive last stop.
Pages