A few questions in rapid-fire format. I don't have the cards in front of me, so pardon if I get wording / names off.
Spite has out the Drug which says when a Hero Activates a power they are dealt 2 toxic damage from Spite, that player then discard the top 5 cards from their deck.
Scenario 1:
Wraith activates Stun Bolts, Targeting Spite.
a. Wraith is dealt 2 toxic damage and discards the top 5 cards of their deck, then Spite takes the damage from Stun Bolts.
b. Spite takes the damage from Stun Bolts, then deals 0 (2-2) toxic damage to Wraith and Wraith discards the top 5 cards from their deck.
c. Spite takes the damage from Stun Bolts, then deals 0 (2-2) toxic damage to Wraith, Wraith does not discard any cards from their deck as the attack from Spite failed to deal damage.
Scenario 2:
Wraith activates a power, Legacy with Lead from the Front and Fortitude in play and uses Lead from the Front.
a. Legacy receives 1 (2-1) damage from Spite, Wraith discards the top 5 cards of their deck as she activated the power.
b. Legacy receives 1 (2-1) damage from Spite, Legacy discards the top 5 cards of their deck as he took the damage.
Scenario 3:
Same as Scenario 2 only Legacy has Next Evolution in play with it's effect preventing Toxic damage.
a. Legacy receives 0 (Immune to Toxic) damage from Spite, [Answer from 2] discards the top 5 cards of their deck.
b. Legacy receives 0 (Immune to Toxic) damage from Spite, No one discards cards as the counterattack from Spite failed to deal damage.
/.-, VVolf
Scenario 1:
You can think of the power 'activating' as the decision to use the power in the first place, so Spite does damage and Wraith discards before he gets hit with the damage (and effect) of Stun Bolts.
Scenario 2:
Legacy takes damage, but Wraith discards (since -correct me if I'm wrong? - Lead from the Front only says to redirect damage to Legacy, not additional effects).
Scenario 3:
Damage is prevented by Next Evolution, but (as above) you haven't prevented the additional effects, so Wraith still discards.
I think that's right.
Also: Spite is Wraith's nemesis, so technically she should take 3 damage in this scenario, not 2. I know that's not what you needed clarification on, but I thought I'd mention it.
Riffian,
I don't think you're correct on Scenario One. The power takes effect first, then the reaction, so Spite would take damage, then Wraith weould take damage (reduced via Stun Bolt) and discard cards. I would say B is the correct answer there. Agree with you on the others.
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I agree with this, though I can't say I know for sure.
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Yeah, when someone like Arenson9 says they don't know for sure, then it becomes a request for an official ruling.
In it's simplest form, the question is as follows:
When effect A happens because power B is activated...
1. Effect A occurs first because activation effects occur before the power is performed.
2. Power B occurs first because the power occurs before the effect triggered by it's activation.
3. It depends, both are triggered at the same time so it goes by play order of the cards: if Power B is from a card that was put into play after the card which triggers affect A was played, then effect A occurs before power B, otherwise power B occurs before effect A.
I think that covers all possible results from the generic scenario, just as I believe I'm using effect correctly as opposed to affect.
Just be glad I'm not phrasing things like "the effect affects the field of play before the power affects the field of play."
/.-, VVolf
I always thought that 'if you play a card, take damage' and 'if you use a power, take damage' effects happen after the thing that precipitated them.
I know I've used Tachyon's Blinding Speed to destroy a Trisolvent vat and then not taken damage from it (perhaps incorrectly).
I asked this question specifically of Christopher a few months back, and his official answer was:
"Spite damages you in response to you using a power, therefore the damage comes after you have used that power."
It's in Spiff's FAQ as a result.
This same ruling also applies to the Innocents that tell you to play a villain card to safehouse them. The card is played and fully resolved, and THEN they are put in the safe house. (Meaning that the villain card MIGHT kill them first, but also, if Forced Entry is played, they'll be put in the safehouse AFTER all innocents are kicked out). This was another question that I asked Christopher at the time, so it's also official.
Keep in mind however, that the first part works the way it does because he damages you in response to using a power. If he did the damage in response to you dealing him damage (like Baron Blade's Backlash Field) then I BELIEVE you would take full damage, because his "response" would come in-between the damage being dealt, and Baron Blade's damage being reduced (because they're separate sentences). This part is NOT an official ruling, but that's what I remember from other, similar threads.
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Ah, okay. My reasoning was that 'when you activate a power' meant 'if a power is being played', so it'd happen before or at the same time... but it makes sense that it's kind of a counter-attack.
Yeah, that was my inclination when I first started playing, as that's very much how Magic worked. In discussions with Christopher about it, though, he explains he wants to avoid any kind of a stack-like mechanism as much as possible.
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Also, it doesn't say that you mill cards IF you are dealt damage. It says he deals you damage, AND you discard cards. Same with Stun bolt; you don't have to deal damage for its effect to activate.
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