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So Luminary

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Ronway
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mwc146 wrote:

I'm not sure Ambuscade will go back to being a villain -- the bio implies he gave up villainy even before the whole OblivAeon thing started. If Tactics says otherwise, however, nevermind.

Tactics does indeed say otherwise. He's also part of the crime team For Profit.

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I think that ambuscade post oblivaeon is more of a mercanery than an outright villain.  He does whatever because it pays.  Crimal aspects just happen to pay better.

Ironic
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Alas, Tactics does say that.

 

I continue to feel as though Tactics is the sort of Bad Future which superheroes are usually bent on preventing.  It's very odd to me.


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Except that against OblivAeon, any future is a good future.


"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

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Akash'Bhuta goes through enough things (sacrificing to the Void and absorbing shards to become Akash'Darsha) that combined with the fact she is literally just fighting to save herself (being the spirit of the Earth) I have no issue with it. She's a spirit and trying to cope with the most incredible change of her existence.

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Ironic wrote:

Alas, Tactics does say that. I continue to feel as though Tactics is the sort of Bad Future which superheroes are usually bent on preventing.  It's very odd to me.


Oh, no! We're in the darkest timeline!
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I got the impression that part of the future darkness of Tactics is due to the massive destruction caused by the OblivAeon event.  So, even in victory, there is huge loss.

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People are talking about Ambuscade becoming a hero - but it looks like from the promo decks that these are alternate timeline versions of Ambuscade that Nightmist grabbed via "Become the Portal". Stuntman has no scars, and the variant version states that the scars 'never stopped his acting career' (which is obviously did for our timeline's version of Ambuscade).

I just assumed that Stuntman is an alt timeline version of him that goes away after the OblivAeon crisis.

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The regular version of Stuntman is very much implied to be the main universe's Ansel Moreau (note the band-aid covering the place where his scar is on his incap side in Villains).

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Stuntman has a scar but it's covered by a bandaid.   His "scar" which is seen on his incap side from VotM is pretty minimal.  


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Stuntman is wearing a plaster on his face, exactly covering the scar Ambuscade has on his face on his Votm uncapped side


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Wasn't his really prominent scar on the right side of his face? We only see his left side on his Hero card, but his promo shows his right side, and his scar is very much visible.

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The promo is from an alternate reality where he embraced his scar and became an ultimate stuntman. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Raccoonoo
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The promo is an alternate reality version of Ansel.

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About Blade: let's not forget that characters change and evolve. The baron we saw trying to pull the moon into earth is not the same man toward the end. He might still harbor a ton of hate for the Parsons, but I don't think we can just totally dismiss the effects of the positive energy field on his worldview. I'm sure it has shifted slightly over the course of the comic. 

 

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I also thought Stuntman was an alternate reality version of Ambuscade.  That would be disappointing if he was just Ambuscade, Stuntman seems much more of a good guy, while Ambuscade seems like an over-obsessed hunter.

 

EDIT: Clarification


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Stuntman is the man known as Ambuscade and the promo version is just him brought in from an alternate reality much like Ivana for Luminary. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
phantaskippy
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Ambuscade is a movie star with a hunting obsession.  The obsession consumes him and he starts hunting heroes.  Pays for "Shady Genetics Corporation" to give him powers, he gains energy-manipulation powers but his face is scarred, he quits acting and hunts heroes, now his only passion.

In Villains he heads up the Slaughterhouse-6 to continue that quest.

When that fails Ambuscade gives up.

He decides to go back to the movies.

Then Oblivion attacks, and he becomes Stuntman, a hero.

 

In Tactics the power he gained from "Shady Genetics Corporation" is fading.  He is working as a mercenary for money to try and pay for more power.

In Uprising he is working for the Operative as she tries to rebuild the Organization.  In For Profit Ambuscade and Operative have formed a merc team, ditching everything but the quest for money.

 

I don't get the feeling he is a villain playing hero, I think his hunting is over, he comes to terms with it.  But Oblivion attacks and he becomes a real hero, living out his movie career in real life.

For an adrenaline junkie like Moreau I could see being the hero filling both the need to take down big prey and be a star.

But when his powers start to fade he loses that too.  More than anything now he just wants to be powerful again.  That's how we get from where we first met him to For Profit.

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Spiff wrote:

I've decided I don't hate the name Luminary as much as I did at first, but mostly because I was able to come up with a logo for his oversized hero card that feels right to me.  The logo uses the same font and colors as the villain, has a thin line of red along the bottom intimating there's still some evil buried deep down in there, and it has a moon icon behind it in case we forget he's the guy who tried to smash the moon into the Earth.  That all helps it feel to me like it's still the same guy, regardless of the new name.I don't think there's ever been a question of whether there's room in the game for a hero who's only barely a hero.  I think we're all down with that.  The only question is whether the name "Luminary" feels right for a Baron Blade who's breaking good.  It definitely does feel like he's ruining his own branding with such a complete name change, but I like that hero card enough that I think I can live with it now. :)

This logo is perfect! I'm a day late, but remarkably impressed. The moon in the back is an especially nice touch. Bravo!

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Foote wrote:

About Blade: let's not forget that characters change and evolve. The baron we saw trying to pull the moon into earth is not the same man toward the end. He might still harbor a ton of hate for the Parsons, but I don't think we can just totally dismiss the effects of the positive energy field on his worldview. I'm sure it has shifted slightly over the course of the comic.  

Any effects positive energy field may have had are purely theoretical since we lack a lot of information about that fight in particular and about Blade's actions following said fight.

Plus we're looking at a massive change from someone willing to wipe out humanity entirely to someone willing to fight for humanity's survival. That's a huge shift in perspective and I can see the positive energy field causing that kind of shift, if it caused anything at all.

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Characters change and evolve. They develop. I don't see what's so unbelievable about blade having an interesting character arc

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I guess what I am saying is that there's no overt sign of it. I agree with you that something could have changed his outlook, just that whatever did is not explicitly in evidence.

And the change is a fairly big one.

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Foote wrote:
Characters change and evolve. They develop. I don't see what's so unbelievable about blade having an interesting character arc
Speaking strictly for myself, it's mostly that I nevre found him to be an interesting character.  I might go so far as to call what we do know of him the least interesting character (TOG et a Character Card, at least) in all of SotM.  Which should make me view nay changes in a positive light, but the face turn which we already know won't last just isn't enough change to get my attention.  The problem with seeing the future, I suppose.

In reply to everyone talking about my view on Tactics' future in general: yes, from an in-universe point of view, any price would be worth stopping OblivAeon.  But I don't assess stories from an in-universe viewpoint - I exist in reality, as do the writers who created this narrative.  I was remarking that I fount it a surprising decision to have their "Big Event" end Tolkein-style with a scarred and diminished world, rather than with a sense of new beginnings such as we see at the end of Crisis On Infinite Earths - or even the "everything is different now" approach with Marvel events like House of M or Civil War push towards.

Whilst it is assuredly interesting to learn that Progeny's attack turned Rook City into Broken City, I see that as secondary to the choice for there to be a Broken City - a former fixture of the setting and home to many major heroes, now made into a post-apocalyptic wasteland ruled by the insane degeneration of a formerly-suave villain and an army of twisted clones of a despised psychopath.  That's a deliberate tonal choice, and a pretty strong one.

And for some poeple, it works really well!  But to me it is, if not the darkest timeline (surely Iron Legacy has a lock on that), still a timeline so dark it makes me less enthused about the official developments of the story's future - even as I eagerly seek out all the new characters and beautiful art which are entwined with that future.


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Ironic: yes, definitely an interesting choice.  It made me think of post-LotR Middle Earth as well.  (Hey, at least it's not post-Quenta Silmarillion Middle Earth, right?)

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I'm not sure whether Moonfall is before or after FFA #1, but since they seem to both be early appearances of Blade and thus near to each other we know that Moonfall and OblivAeon are around thirty years apart. Thirty years is an INCREDIBLY LONG TIME. I can completely and utterly see Blade, initially incredibly angry and driven by burning passion, attempting to take down the world just to defeat Legacy (and, as others have pointed out before me, he was safe in Atlantis at the time), but that doesn't mean he has to remain that way for the next thirty years. And after all, look at Mad Bomber Blade, or Vengeance Blade, and Tactics Blade - they all want to take down Legacy, but none of them are gunning for the world any more.

And not to belabor the point, but Blade never tried to kill himself. Read his bio, if you've not already; Ivan Ramonat is determined to survive. He is not going to take kindly to someone trying to end the multiverse he's currently living in.


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I would argue that if you're crashing the moon into the Earth there is no such thing as being safe on Earth. Hiding in Atlantis is great, but it wouldn't have saved him. He'd be completely aware of that.

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Which as smart as Blade is means he knew he would survive from there.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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There's no way to survive a lunar impact. Baron Blade might have believed he'd survive, but I give him credit for understanding E=MC^2. But okay, say he has a super heavy duty bunker from which to survive. Now he's ruler of a lava-covered Earth with no other life on it. Except maybe Legacy, because Legacy can be immune to environment damage.

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Well that leaves him alone to take care of Legacy.   


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Ronway
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Yesterday I was able to talk to Christopher about Baron Blade and his becoming of Luminary. 

For starters, Baron Blade wants enough people on Earth to survive so they can witness his brilliance. While Baron Blade is a genius, he doesn't tend to think out his plans entirely, due to his hatred of Legacy. He comes up with a plan to kill Legacy, not really thinking out the consequences of his plans outside of that. It's not that he wants to die by pulling the moon into the Earth, it's that he hasn't thought that he would die by pulling the moon to the Earth. In the FFA#1, he tries to drill to the center of the Earth, he's smart enough to do so, but once again didn't factor in the length of time that's going to actually take. In Vengeance, he injects himself with all kinds of serums to make him stronger, ignoring what it could do to him just for the sake of trying to kill Legacy.

On him becoming Luminary, Christopher confirmed that Baron Blade is helping the heroes because he says OblivAeon as something that could kill Legacy. He is not willing to let someone else succeed where he has previously failed. So he's going to help defeat OblivAeon, ensuring that he'll have more chances down the line to kill Legacy. I also asked what would be the justification to have Baron Blade versus Luminary. It would be because Luminary sees the other as an imposter and cannot let him kill Legacy, because that's what Luminary will do. 

Summary: Baron Blade doesn't want global destruction, only to kill Legacy but fails to think of all the repercussions of his plans. He'll fight any villain if they are a threat to killing Legacy.

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Ronway, thank you for posting that. It makes a lot of sense.

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Thanks Ronway.  What you got from Christopher follows what the theory we've has on why he became a hero for now.  It also goes along with my thought that even if pulling the moon into the planet is a bad idea Baron Blade thought he would nevertheless but that may not have been the case if succeeded.   


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
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Maybe it pulled the moon into the Earth really gently.

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BlueHairedMeerkat wrote:

I'm not sure whether Moonfall is before or after FFA #1, but since they seem to both be early appearances of Blade and thus near to each other we know that Moonfall and OblivAeon are around thirty years apart. Thirty years is an INCREDIBLY LONG TIME.

Superman made his debut more than 75 years ago, and for that entire time, he's been about 29 years old.  If he deviates from that age, it's (1) a time skip or alternate universe rather than actual aging, and (2) more often to get younger than older.

Comic book time is strange.

I assume that Sentinel Comics works like the Big Two American comic book companies, and that long periods of time don't really result in aging.  They might still result in character development, of course  -but there's no gaurentee.  Based on what Ronway learned from Christopher (thanks, Ronway!), Blade is one of those non-development cases.


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However Sentinels Comics does have a few time skips here and there. The biggest one being where Ra was defeated by The Ennead and disappeared for a few years before coming back and beating them. Overall I think time works the same as real life comics but there have been moments where time shifts or there are noticable differences.

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True story: DC comics once had a one year timeskip during a three-year period where (as far as I could tell), about a week of time passed across the Green Lantern family of books.

 

Do not look directly at Happy Fun Comicbook Time.


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Ironic wrote:

 

BlueHairedMeerkat wrote:
I'm not sure whether Moonfall is before or after FFA #1, but since they seem to both be early appearances of Blade and thus near to each other we know that Moonfall and OblivAeon are around thirty years apart. Thirty years is an INCREDIBLY LONG TIME.

 

Superman made his debut more than 75 years ago, and for that entire time, he's been about 29 years old.  If he deviates from that age, it's (1) a time skip or alternate universe rather than actual aging, and (2) more often to get younger than older.Comic book time is strange.I assume that Sentinel Comics works like the Big Two American comic book companies, and that long periods of time don't really result in aging.  They might still result in character development, of course  -but there's no gaurentee.  Based on what Ronway learned from Christopher (thanks, Ronway!), Blade is one of those non-development cases.

Superman has also changed a lot during that time.  He may not age, but he changes.

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Look at the difference between, say, Lex Luthor 30 years ago (mad scientist bent on killing Superman/taking over the world) to today (Calculating businessman bent on killing Superman/making money, but still doesn't want the world to end).

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mwc146 wrote:

Look at the difference between, say, Lex Luthor 30 years ago (mad scientist bent on killing Superman/taking over the world) to today (Calculating businessman bent on killing Superman/making money, but still doesn't want the world to end).

30 years ago, in 1986, we juuuuuuust had post-Crisis Luthor, the calculating businessman.  That's not character development which happened to the cackling joke which Blade is inspired by, it's a revamping of the character which happened by restarting the universe.

Genuine, over-time changes to superhero characters aren't unheard of (look at Jean Grey, or Dick Grayson), but they're (1) not exactly the norm, either, and (2) not something can map to real-world time, let alone the fictional "real-world" time we're discussing here.

But, hey, assume whatever works for your game.  My group's versions of the SotM characters are wildly different from the canon ones by now, and I certainly wouldn't push anyone to use either of those versions in lieu of their own preferences.  I was just saying that, if  Blade is really just the same Legacy-hating madman, as he is being portrayed (and as Christopher has confirmed he is intended to be), I don't get the name change.  To me, that would bespeak a change in outlook which Blade is explicitly not feeling, and apparently not even feigning.  If you like the name enough to think Blade would be tickled by it as well, or your Blade really is having a change of heart (temporary or otherwise), or for any other reason that argument doesn't work for you, that's fine.

Certainly, I don't think any of us will change our outlook on the philosophy of comic-book characterization over this as-yet unreleased hero.


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I just assumed it was akin to early Doctor Doom and Luthor's Silver Age-esque plans... with time, these plans became more... reasonable and the characters were fleshed out.

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Two words: Temporary Amnesia

Progeny hit the Baron in the head. All he knows is the destruction being caused by OblivAeon. He wants to be good... but crazy is crazy and as his memory slowly returns, his nefarious plots begin to brew anew.  

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Katsue wrote:

Lifeline is the same person he was before. He hasn't changed his viewpoint, just his operational objectives.

 

Yes, but to be fair, his viewpoint originally was heroic, more or less.  He just was operating on bad data, leading to mistakes of judgement.

That said, I think all of the core five "heroes" have plausible reasons to remain heroic after this event except for Luminary, given canon.  The Matriarch is outright reformed, Deadline never was malicious in the first place, and La Commodora seems to have learned wisdom from her long years. 

Akash'Thriya... okay, here's the thing:  if you take the variant as canon, she taps upon the Void.  If the Void is what I think it is, this can't help but change her.  Note that every other known user of the Void is a hero, save for Oblivaeon and those empowered directly by him.  I would not be shocked if the portion of Akash'Bhuta that does this is changed, and no longer able to dismiss the importance of humanity. . . and this is the price the Void exacts on her.  Akash'Bhuta loses a portion of herself permanently, and Akash'Thriya can never go back to being part of the larger primordial godbeing she once was.

Baron Blade is the one exception, but only because of Sentinel Tactics establishing a future canon.  Otherwise, I'd totally willing to believe that time and events could have mellowed him, at least enough to be within plausible reach of some vague form of redemption.  This is not so much because of his own nature, as because of the nature of his adversary, Legacy.  "Superman helps Lex Luthor become a better person" is a perfectly appropriate plot.

 

( As for the mini-expansion heroes?  Ambuscade is in the same position as Baron Blade- plausible arc, future canon says otherwise.  Of course, his apparent "redemption" isn't a huge deal anyway, since he's just going from being a selfish villain to a selfish 'hero'.  Benchmark. . . is entirely dependent on what the hell he actually *is*, and what is going on with RevoCorp, etc. )

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metaphysician wrote:

okay, here's the thing:  if you take the variant as canon, she taps upon the Void.  

All variants are canon for all characters.

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Another version of Akash'Bhuta, named Akash'Dharsha, appears in Tactics. She is a villain there, right?

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On one of the art streams I believe Christopher did confirm that Benchmark was genuinely a good guy. So its likely that Revocorp is using his desire to do good and help others to boost their image. I'm pretty sure he's a straight up hero for the most part.

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metaphysician wrote:

(As for the mini-expansion heroes?  Ambuscade is in the same position as Baron Blade- plausible arc, future canon says otherwise.  Of course, his apparent "redemption" isn't a huge deal anyway, since he's just going from being a selfish villain to a selfish 'hero'.  Benchmark. . . is entirely dependent on what the hell he actually *is*, and what is going on with RevoCorp, etc. )

I'm pretty sure that Stuntman is an alternate reality Ambuscade since his action hero promo says that the scars didn't stop his acting career, while in the prime reality, it did, turning him into a villain. Also, we do know that Benchmark the character in the suit has wholly good, heroic intentions, while we don't know if that's the same for Revocorp.


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dpt wrote:

Another version of Akash'Bhuta, named Akash'Dharsha, appears in Tactics. She is a villain there, right?

Do we know anything about her story?  If not, that could support my scenario:  Akash'Dharsha is the name for the larger portion of Akash'Bhuta that is still an amoral goddess of nature and chaos.

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XXVZ wrote:

 

metaphysician wrote:
(As for the mini-expansion heroes?  Ambuscade is in the same position as Baron Blade- plausible arc, future canon says otherwise.  Of course, his apparent "redemption" isn't a huge deal anyway, since he's just going from being a selfish villain to a selfish 'hero'.  Benchmark. . . is entirely dependent on what the hell he actually *is*, and what is going on with RevoCorp, etc. )

 

I'm pretty sure that Stuntman is an alternate reality Ambuscade since his action hero promo says that the scars didn't stop his acting career, while in the prime reality, it did, turning him into a villain. Also, we do know that Benchmark the character in the suit has wholly good, heroic intentions, while we don't know if that's the same for Revocorp.

That's the case for the variant "action hero" Stuntman.  The normal version *is* Ambuscade, just Ambuscade after he got sick of being beaten up by heroes, and decided to go back to acting.  Though I imagine even variant Stuntman is still fairly amoral as heroes go, he just has a lot of positive reinforcement.

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XXVZ wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Stuntman is an alternate reality Ambuscade since his action hero promo says that the scars didn't stop his acting career, while in the prime reality, it did, turning him into a villain.
My interpretation of those bios was that the action hero promo is from an alternate reality, while the main "Stuntman" deck is from the main Sentinels timeline.
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Stuntman is from our timeline and is our Ambuscade. No doubt about it.

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