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So Luminary

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Spiff
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Building on UMX266's good idea from another thread, Blade could simply be called "The Baron" now, which would make his alt "The Baroness".  "Luminary" feels like it's trying too hard.


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Braithwhite wrote:

I'm guessing he found out his father is alive, and was (in fact) saved from a fiery death by the elder Legacy... who Baron Blade then killed. Once he finds out the truth, he abandons the Baron Blade title (or turns it over to his father). 

 

Where have we learned that?

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Praion wrote:

 

Braithwhite wrote:
I'm guessing he found out his father is alive, and was (in fact) saved from a fiery death by the elder Legacy... who Baron Blade then killed. Once he finds out the truth, he abandons the Baron Blade title (or turns it over to his father). 

 

 Where have we learned that?

We haven't. It's merely somewhat well-founded speculation.

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The letters in Baron Luminary's logo are outlined in red, white and blue, a lot like in Legacy's logo.  Why would Blade ape Legacy that way, especially since Blade isn't even American?


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"Anything you can do I can do better..."

 

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Spiff wrote:
The letters in Baron Luminary's logo are outlined in red, white and blue, a lot like in Legacy's logo.  Why would Blade ape Legacy that way, especially since Blade isn't even American?
Huh, good question. The dominant colors in all of Ivan Ramonat's costumes are red and purple, with a little bit of white. That looks a little more like purple on the bottom to me. But maybe the colors could be tweaked to make that more obvious.

I'm also not sure where red and purple come from. It doesn't seem to be the flag of Lithuania, unless maybe it's about the historical flag.

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Belle Sorciere wrote:

"Anything you can do I can do better..." 

This. Also note the L.......Y naming scheme.

Blade is the consequence of Legacy, and his whole life is all about besting him, one way or another - and if it is by saving the world BETTER , let it be so.

A luminary is also someone you may want to follow and emulate - and Legacy is an icon that many would follow. This name is all about telling Leg : "I can be YOU, just better". Think about the "Doc.Oc becomes Spiderman but better" storyline.

Another point about the name : "Baron Blade" is surely known by the public as a villain. "I am Luminary ! I am here to save you" sounds better than "I am Baron Blade, I am here to save you !":D


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Whomsoever defeats Luminary, if they be worthy, shall forever more be Superluminary.

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You know how Chrono-ranger has that card where if other people discard cards then Chrono can draw that many?  I'd love for Baron von Luminary's deck to be full of stuff like that, stuff that helps the team but also mostly helps Blade at the slight expense of the team.  I don't picture Luminaryblade going out of his way to save a lot of people if there's nothing in it for him.


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Another theory, it might be related to what the people of Mordengrad call him. Part of Blade's story is growing up in a desperately poor Eastern European City where the people are starving around him. Who did this? Legacy's father to be sure, but it was the Allies and America who gave him his orders which destroyed the facility and drove the people into extreme poverty.

 

To those people, Blade is a hero. He brought back wealth and status to the city, fights those who wronged them, and really is their savior.

Blade is a hard man, ice-cold, but what if during his trial after the Vengeance arc, his people still supported him? We know he is free, what if it is because of them? It might be much harder for him to turn his back on these people who call him their hero, and they might have given him the name Luminary, as the their brilliant leader.

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Also, it occurs to me that the Fort Adamant arc has revealed deep-seated corruption in the US military.  Greatest Legacy was responsible for the death of Blade's father and the destruction of his home, but if it turned out that Legacy was just a pawn of a secret miliatry plot, it might help Blade set aside his hatred at least a little bit.  Nothing like knowing that your enemy was playing the fool to cheer you up and make you feel generous.

 

I do find it interesting that Blade's father was working on a shrink ray, and now Luminary is helping Sky-Scraper shrink (and grow)


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Other possible names I thought of, inspired by this thread:

Kommander Kris

Duke Dagger

Excellent Edge

 

Most kidding aside, as much as the "L_________Y" connection is cute, I also kinda doubt the guy who named his personal guard the "Blade Brigade" would give up his brand management that easily.  However, too me, the point is largely mute, since in my group's ongoing continuity, Blade II is dead, and Blade I is otherwise accounted for.  In that sense, Luminary is ideal for us, since it's easier to attach to a different character without causing confusion.


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I've been uhming and ahhing about the Luminary hero deck since the first update and the concept just feels really weird given that Blade goes back to being a bad guy in Tactics - and even weirder to think about using that hero deck in some other games. The story is the story, so I'll take it as it comes, but it just feels more right for Blade's daughter to be Luminary and for him to be a promo card, as in "oh yeah, she came through the rift between multiverses and then there was this one time that her father stood alongside the heroes to save the planet from destruction".

Anyways, I like the parrallel it has to the Legacy decks, all we need now is a prom card for "Lithuania's greatest Luminary" and then we're all set smiley

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I've been thinking about it, it sounds like the major conflict is going to be at Fort Adamant, where a ton of military secrets are held.  What better way for Blade to get access to all those secrets then to help fight the villian who is going to be there anyway?  He gets more info about the heroes he wants to destroy, perhaps steals some secret tech and just has to prevent the destruction of the world he technically lives in from being destroyed sounds like plan to me.

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Mezike wrote:

I've been uhming and ahhing about the Luminary hero deck since the first update and the concept just feels really weird given that Blade goes back to being a bad guy in Tactics - and even weirder to think about using that hero deck in some other games. The story is the story, so I'll take it as it comes, but it just feels more right for Blade's daughter to be Luminary and for him to be a promo card, as in "oh yeah, she came through the rift between multiverses and then there was this one time that her father stood alongside the heroes to save the planet from destruction".Anyways, I like the parrallel it has to the Legacy decks, all we need now is a prom card for "Lithuania's greatest Luminary" and then we're all set smiley

Can't you just pretend the Young Luminary is the "real" one and Ivan is the "promo"? Thats my head cannon already and its soooooo good.

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I like the idea that Baron Blade thinks he is really fooling Legacy, and that everyone will actually believe he is a hero, because he doesn't actually know them and thinks they are all inferior and stupid.

I imagine a lot of internal maniacal gloating that he thinks the others don't notice.

Yes, even during a vicious battle to save existance as they know it.

Baron doesn't do somewhat crazy.

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Foote wrote:

Can't you just pretend the Young Luminary is the "real" one and Ivan is the "promo"? Thats my head cannon already and its soooooo good.

I agree with this.... in my mind its like a Fanatic thing where even though all her cards say Fanatic thats not what she calls herself or what others call her (to her face anyway). For me this is Baron Blade helping the heroes and sharing a deck with the alternate timeline hero Luminary. The deck takes that name for game mechanics reasons.

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It's fine in my head that Baron Blade is a hero.   He wouldn't be the first villain to go back and forth.   It makes sense at this to point that he would consider helping out and I honestly seeing him trying to one up Legacy through out.


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Foote wrote:

Can't you just pretend the Young Luminary is the "real" one and Ivan is the "promo"? Thats my head cannon already and its soooooo good.

 

Yeah, I'm already set to do that, but you know the deck is going to be stuffed full of art and flavour text that gnaws against that wink

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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

It's fine in my head that Baron Blade is a hero.   He wouldn't be the first villain to go back and forth.   It makes sense at this to point that he would consider helping out and I honestly seeing him trying to one up Legacy through out.

Same here. Though I think he won't hesitate to turn things in his advantage while helping. I'd bet that in the official story, he ends up stealing oblivion shards right under the nose of the heroes : "Yes, my allies, I can, with my unmatched scientific genius, use these shards for our cause. I'll take them to my laboratory, and make a weapon against our ennemy. No need to keep an eye on them - they are safe with the Ba... Luminary !"


Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman

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As someone else mentioned (can't for the life of me find it right now), Blade isn't so much becoming a Hero as he is saying to OblivAeon, "You don't get to kill Legacy and destroy the world, **I** get to kill Legacy and destroy the world."

So naturally, as soon as the crisis is averted, he goes back to being his typical evil genius.

As to the name, I'm guessing he was aware of Ivana since the initial shattering of the timelines and took her heroic name to mock her.

And, yes, I agree, outside of the OblivAeon battle, I'll probably only use the Ivana Luminary card, treating BB Luminary as an event-based promo.


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Yak Guardian wrote:

As someone else mentioned (can't for the life of me find it right now), Blade isn't so much becoming a Hero as he is saying to OblivAeon, "You don't get to kill Legacy and destroy the world, **I** get to kill Legacy and destroy the world."So naturally, as soon as the crisis is averted, he goes back to being his typical evil genius.As to the name, I'm guessing he was aware of Ivana since the initial shattering of the timelines and took her heroic name to mock her.And, yes, I agree, outside of the OblivAeon battle, I'll probably only use the Ivana Luminary card, treating BB Luminary as an event-based promo.

It's kind of like the ending to Turtles Forever, where after 80s Shredder and Krang help the turtles preserve their multiverse, he's promising to come at them with some devious scheme even as he's giving them a ride back to their own dimension.
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I guess I am wondering what happens after OblivAeon. Does everybody remember it? Does it revert back to some previous point before it happens (with only the survivors)? That could be why Blade is still bad, since he never turned good, or why Matty has a different name (would have turned good anyways, but a different sequence of ecents led up to it). *shrug* I guess we will find out!


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Luminary will be a lot more palatable as a hero, I think, if his deck does a lot of collateral damage to other heroes in the game.

This would not only tie into Blade being more villainous, but also suggest that his inventions often fritz out on him. :-)

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Trajector wrote:

Luminary will be a lot more palatable as a hero, I think, if his deck does a lot of collateral damage to other heroes in the game.

This would not only tie into Blade being more villainous, but also suggest that his inventions often fritz out on him. :-)


It's what I expect from his deck. Or, rather, lots of cards that gives other heroes the opportunity to hurt themselves for greater power.

Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman

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"Consider the price of victory" indeed ;).


I am the Wordweaver...

Basically, I like writing stuff ;)

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Another thing to consider, last time we saw Blade was Vengeance. It was stated in Vengeance that the super serum blade took to increse his power wrecked his body.

 

So here's Blade, cooling his heels in jail, severely limited by the damage he did to his own body. The FV, particularly Tachyon and Legacy show up for a chat. They need help, they know it, Blade knows it. They negotiate. Tachyon will help fix Blade, Legacy will use his influence (and the pending extinction of reality) to get Blade out, maybe Wraith throws in the cash. The condition, you get to fight an unstoppable being bent on destroying everything in existence, and we probably won't make it out alive anyways.

 

Makes sense to everyone involved, but the FV aren't a private group, they are funded by the Government. The public doesn't like, trust, or even care about Blade, so the heroes need a way to calm the public. OvlivAeon hasn't hit a major metropolitan area, he could be gov't BS, but he could also be real, not a big enough push and not enough to get Blade out, so Blade re-brands. Waxes on about how the American Justice system and his time in a cell made him turn over a new leaf. All of it is completely false, but it is enough to quell the public and not cause them to be a distraction from the main event.

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Last we see Baron Blade would have to be Positive Energy Field in Realm of Discord after Vengeance since that shows his scar healing.  


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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Last we see Baron Blade would have to be Positive Energy Field in Realm of Discord after Vengeance since that shows his scar healing.  

Correct.

Also don't forget that at some point, Baron Blade was also put on Trial! Now THATS a comic I wanna read.

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Chaosmancer's post reminds me that by the time of Tactics, the Freedom Five have a more distant relationship with the government.

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dpt wrote:

Chaosmancer's post reminds me that by the time of Tactics, the Freedom Five have a more distant relationship with the government.

With their revealed ties and relationship to FILTER it doesn't surprise me

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I've decided I don't hate the name Luminary as much as I did at first, but mostly because I was able to come up with a logo for his oversized hero card that feels right to me.  The logo uses the same font and colors as the villain, has a thin line of red along the bottom intimating there's still some evil buried deep down in there, and it has a moon icon behind it in case we forget he's the guy who tried to smash the moon into the Earth.  That all helps it feel to me like it's still the same guy, regardless of the new name.

I don't think there's ever been a question of whether there's room in the game for a hero who's only barely a hero.  I think we're all down with that.  The only question is whether the name "Luminary" feels right for a Baron Blade who's breaking good.  It definitely does feel like he's ruining his own branding with such a complete name change, but I like that hero card enough that I think I can live with it now. :)

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Spiff wrote:

I don't think there's ever been a question of whether there's room in the game for a hero who's only barely a hero.

Believe me, I am fighting the urge to begin a thread about it. The Baron was expeted since the base game, for me (it fits too well his archetype to have a temporary go at beign a "hero") but I feel there are too many heroic villains now devil. But, well, it's the last expansion, let's go crazy !


Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman

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Spiff wrote:

I've decided I don't hate the name Luminary as much as I did at first, but mostly because I was able to come up with a logo for his oversized hero card that feels right to me.  The logo uses the same font and colors as the villain, has a thin line of red along the bottom intimating there's still some evil buried deep down in there, and it has a moon icon behind it in case we forget he's the guy who tried to smash the moon into the Earth.  That all helps it feel to me like it's still the same guy, regardless of the new name.I don't think there's ever been a question of whether there's room in the game for a hero who's only barely a hero.  I think we're all down with that.  The only question is whether the name "Luminary" feels right for a Baron Blade who's breaking good.  It definitely does feel like he's ruining his own branding with such a complete name change, but I like that hero card enough that I think I can live with it now. :)

I really really like what you did with the Name design aspect Spiff. That seems a lot better to my eye than what is on the KS page right now.

Do me a favor and redesign Fuge State Parse next because that text is super bad

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Foote wrote:

Do me a favor and redesign Fuge State Parse next because that text is super bad

Some of the official logos are really great and I would never touch them.  Captain Cosmic is a great example.  But I 100% agree about Parse (I wasn't a fan of the original Parse's logo either), and it's definitely on my list.  I've got some ideas for a few others as well.

If I could get clean art for all the new heroes (art without their text already covering things), I could go to town with the new stuff, but I still don't have art for VotM, so Oblivaeon art is likely still a ways away.


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@GtG, if you ever wanted to use any of my logo designs, that'd be fine with me. Just let me know and I can tell you what fonts I used so you can make sure you can use them for commercial products. I just do this for funsies, so there'd be no question of having to pay me or anything. 


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Here's where my mind went with the whole naming convention thing:

During the OblivAeon crisis, the heroes receive some much needed support from someone just calling themselves, "The Luminary". This help proves integral in buying the heroes the time they need to regroup and form a plan of attack. When Luminary finally shows himself, it is of course, none other than Baron Blade. Blade professes a desire to leave a legacy of his own, and a distaste for anyone else killing Parsons. Legacy doesn't trust this newfound heroism of Ivan's, but he appears sincere, at least in his hate. The other heroes choose not to look a gift horse in the mouth. 

Luminary joins the side of the angels and after a time, is instrumental in giving them even a ghost of a chance against OblivAeon. Eventually, even Legacy comes to trust Luminary as they launch their final combined effort against the Great Destroyer. The battle is brutal and not without it's casualties. When it comes time to deal the final blow to the seemingly godlike being, OblivAeon launches a fierce countermeasure against Legacy and Beacon. At that moment, Luminary interposes himself in between the two forces and seemingly disintergrating into nothingness.

Reeling, Paul Parsons galvanizes the heroes into a final push against OblivAeon. The combined might of the Freedom Five, the Prime Wardens, the Darkwatch, the Southwest Sentinels and heroes from all over the world deal a mortal blow to the invader. A blinding light erupts from the center of OblivAeon's chest and the heroes race away from the ensuing Earth-shattering explosion of energy. OblivAeon is no more. Nothing remains of where he once stood. Nothing except a small blinking device.

OblivAeon was a being of immense power. The amount of energy such a being could produce would be stronger than any force we could imagine. Stronger than the moon that gives us the tides. Stronger than the luminous sun. If someone could harness that energy they would become more than a man - more than a title. They would become...

THE EMPYREAL BLADE!

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Spiff, that logo is tremendous. It made me realize that he should probably have a slight name change, too: Lune-inary!

;)

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Mezike wrote:

I've been uhming and ahhing about the Luminary hero deck since the first update and the concept just feels really weird given that Blade goes back to being a bad guy in Tactics - and even weirder to think about using that hero deck in some other games. The story is the story, so I'll take it as it comes, but it just feels more right for Blade's daughter to be Luminary and for him to be a promo card, as in "oh yeah, she came through the rift between multiverses and then there was this one time that her father stood alongside the heroes to save the planet from destruction".Anyways, I like the parrallel it has to the Legacy decks, all we need now is a prom card for "Lithuania's greatest Luminary" and then we're all set smiley

... Daughter? His daughter is not involved in this, at all. The female Luminary is HIM, just genderswapped. I don't know why people keep assuming she's his daughter!


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McBehrer wrote:

 

Mezike wrote:
I've been uhming and ahhing about the Luminary hero deck since the first update and the concept just feels really weird given that Blade goes back to being a bad guy in Tactics - and even weirder to think about using that hero deck in some other games. The story is the story, so I'll take it as it comes, but it just feels more right for Blade's daughter to be Luminary and for him to be a promo card, as in "oh yeah, she came through the rift between multiverses and then there was this one time that her father stood alongside the heroes to save the planet from destruction".Anyways, I like the parrallel it has to the Legacy decks, all we need now is a prom card for "Lithuania's greatest Luminary" and then we're all set smiley

 

... Daughter? His daughter is not involved in this, at all. The female Luminary is HIM, just genderswapped. I don't know why people keep assuming she's his daughter!

Probably an assumed symmetry with Legacy and Young Legacy? Plus Blade looks plder than Luminary. Probably from the beard.


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I'm not assuming anything, just stating what I think makes more sense to me as a storyline that encompasses having Luminary as a hero in a regular battle.

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Regardless, I can't wait for the Mad Bombshell variant (of the variant).

EDIT: That would give Blade a regular card, promo lady version, and WWII version just like Legacy!


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"

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... do we have a Baron Blade I promo?


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Fyodor Ramonat and his Zeppelins/Robot soldiers of Doom?

Too awesome for a promo.  He deserves a full deck, and a cool environment to go with it.

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I always saw Baron Blade as a Dr. Doom Charater. Having Super science, a country and an army.

Lumanary is probably just phase for him, Big bad comes down, my country is in trouble (he magicly cares now, forget about that moon thing), Might as well be a hero to my people. (I like the whole WW2 story someone posted) going to join the heroes to beat a big bad.

He did Science to Sky-scaper that is risky, stuff that Tachy will not do. I doubt he has a moral compas. Who know what other things he have done "for the greater good*" Lumanary will be good for as long as the story needs him to be, then be bad there after. I mean Lex Luthor does that time to time.

*Good form his point of view.*

Also any of the Villian that are human can totaly help. Wraith is just a human, why can Ermine go steal something important. I will remind you that Hawkeye saved the world many time because he was human. See example. He also did something with thanos when he had the infinty gantlet that let Adam win. Classic comic book troope. So us human can relate to the "non Powered ones" and cheer for humany's power.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/10/a-year-of-cool-comic-book-moments-day-10/

Promo Luminary is a Heroic Female Baron Blade form a differnt multiverse. Please lets not forget that, I Think it rocks. I want my gender bended Chrono ranger Please.


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Ironic
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Sure, but Doom and Lex don't take on new identities for those five minutes of teaming up.

 

(Although, really, I'm not even sold on that much for Blade - what we've seen of him so far is much more the cackling silver age Lex than the scheming businessman who aided the Justice League in Destroyer.  Ah, well - I've been wanting a dedicated mad science deck, so this will still be all to the good.)


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"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"

BlueHairedMeerkat
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Mezike wrote:

I've been uhming and ahhing about the Luminary hero deck since the first update and the concept just feels really weird given that Blade goes back to being a bad guy in Tactics - and even weirder to think about using that hero deck in some other games.

I kinda feel like this about some of the others, too - Harpy is a bona fide hero, sure, Benchmark, Lifeline and maybe La Comodora, but Bluminary, Thriya and Stuntman are all totally villains who are going to go back to being total villains as soon as all this blows over. Having them as heroes irks me somewhat, and I'd much prefer to see Ivana and parallel Stuntman as the base characters for just that reason.

This is also why I'm so vociferously against having an Ennead hero deck, as some have suggested. At least the others presumably had a few issues or maybe a mini-series in which to be heroic - the Ennead had about two minutes between 'heroes' and 'dead'.


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Belle Sorciere
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I'm not bothered by these temporary heroes becoming villains again after the crisis is over. More that they never stopped being villains, they just acted in their own best interests to save the multiverse from annihilation.

I still have issues with Luminary/Baron Blade being okay with causing extinction level events but wanting to stop Oblivaeon. I know people are like "He wants to be the one to do it" but it just makes his face turn a stretch to accept. How nihilistic do you have to be to attempt to wipe out humanity, and how narcissistic do you have to be to insist that only you get to do it?

I mean I'll ultimately be fine with it overall because hey, a hero deck, and I love hero decks and I don't have issues with the name or the logo.

Katsue
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Lifeline is the same person he was before. He hasn't changed his viewpoint, just his operational objectives.

The Burning Stickman
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I'm not sure Ambuscade will go back to being a villain -- the bio implies he gave up villainy even before the whole OblivAeon thing started. If Tactics says otherwise, however, nevermind.

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