Yeah, Biomancer used the Clone-Ranger to alter or mess with Con somehow after Chrono had been already going on missions; Biomancer didn't help create Con even indirectly.
Likewise, Con discovered how to enact time travel after they were created, so while OblivAeon's shenangians likely allowed Con to do that, OblivAeon wasn't involved in how Con actually works either. (Con doesn't seem to be a child of time like La Cap became either; just able to harness chronal energies.)
Con themself seems to be basically some combination of Unity's technopath power, Argent's Void-related power and knowledge, and Fixer's mechanical know-how.
"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."
Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.
Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.
And most importantly, CON can grow and learn, much like Omnitron. Combining that with Void Energy shenanagins probably means CON is more than just a machine, and gets into questions of "life" much like O-X
Con really is kind of interesting, in that magic/Void/skill is pretty much the triangle of main sources of things in the Sentinelsverse, and Con is at the confluence of all of them.
"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."
Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.
Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.
Updated for Legacy! Cool. We even know the singular entity's name: Wellspring.
I disagree about Haka's categorization. I don't think he gets his power from OblivAeon, or even knock-on effects of OblivAeon. He gets his power from La Comodora, and her temporal sciences. Yes, she got the start of HER power from OblivAeon, but she is far more integral to Haka than OblivAeon is.
I've internally waffled about that one myself. But not only does everything about how La Comodora works come from OblivAeon, it also functions because of OblivAeon. Travel across realities is only possible because of OblivAeon's shattering of the timelines, and La Comodora uses both that weakness and the power she's accrued through that fact to create Haka. OblivAeon didn't grant her powers intentionally, like a Scion, but she is wielding its power in everything she does.
If Haka had been created by another hero that crossed realities, Visionary or Omnitron-X for instance, who exploited the shattering of the timelines but didn't get their power from them, I'd more likely agree with you. Or if he'd been the creation of a different hero whose powers originated with OblivAeon but wasn't bound to it, such as Parse. Or if we had some indication that La Comodora would have retained some component of her abilities after OblivAeon was defeated. But as it stands, I sort of see her as a proxy of OblivAeon's powers.
I’m not quite sure I agree either that La Comodora got her powers from OblivAeon. She got lost in time on the ship before OblivAeon shattered the timelines. Add on the fact that bringing the ship into reality from outside time and destroying it is what left her stranded outside time. Her powers came from the ship originally, tech she gathered, and experience she has gotten from using those.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I mean, you're saying that the timelines were shattered later, but time shattering makes bad things happen in every time period. Because time shattered. That said, while the initial time rift in Spanish waters that ends up giving her ship power is definitely an OblivAeon thing, he's not the power source. The Sea of Time is the power source. He just causes the thing that lets her get to The Sea of Time.
Similarly, while actions taken by OblivAeon end up coincidentally leading to Haka gaining power down the line, he isn't the direct cause of that power nor did he have a hand in causing Haka's powers to develop. Haka gets his powers from a temporal anomaly that is made possible by OblivAeon, but saying that makes OblivAeon the power source is like saying the geneticist that creates the radioactive Schmider that bites Schmider-Man is the source of Schmider-Man's power. OblivAeon is an enabler, but he does little beyond that.
Visionary or Omnitron-X for instance, who exploited the shattering of the timelines but didn't get their power from them
MindWanderer wrote:
Travel across realities is only possible because of OblivAeon's shattering of the timelines
Why not consider what Maria Helena does "exploiting" OblivAeon's effects?
But besides that, while I agree that the start of Maria Helena's story involved fallout from OblivAeon, there is far more of La Comodora's action in Haka's creation than there is OblivAeon's action. La Capitan could not have created Haka - she needed to master temporal manipulation. There is a huge amount of skill, power, and... technology? involved in what La Comodora does that is the benefit of Maria Helena's own growth and experience. In addition, she is the one who conceived this plan and made the choice to execute it.
Fair arguments, all. As I said, I was on the fence. I'll make the change.
To me it's unclear where exactly the "chronal energy" Maria Helena gets her power from comes from. To me, it's a byproduct of OblivAeon's shattering of the timelines. It's less "if I make a pan, and you cook an omelette in that pan, you made the omelette," and more like if Baron Blade goes to a Nolan Generator, captures some of its particles, artificially creates Isoflux Alpha, shoots it at someone, and grants them powers, they're still an Omega. You wouldn't say Gregory Nolan was the direct cause of their creation like he was with other Omegas, you'd blame Baron Blade, but they're still Omegas. The power comes from the same place.
Anyway, that's what I was thinking, but I see your point and I seem to be in the minority. This was supposed to be a reference, not just a list of my opinions.
Updated with the Citizens we learned about in Sunrise (some of which we already knew through Tactics, but I wasn't aware of them). Still don't know the Seasons or any of the ones that never appear in either game.
In case anyone is wondering, I'm going to continue to maintain this list the same way I have been despite the Power Sources podcast episode. C&A's approach in the RPG is very different from mine, being intentionally vague and open-ended, with many different ways approaching the same character. They're more driven by storytelling than world-building. I can see why they'd see Absolute Zero and Nightmist as being similar (with the "accident" or "cursed" origin), but that doesn't really explain anything from a "how the Sentinels world works" perspective.
Edit: I did, however, make a number of changes based on some clarifications from that episode, mostly about the nature of magic.
But the RPG is focused on telling stories and making characters in a world. Both lists are made for different purposes. I would argue with a few things on your list but it is not for me. You list is to group heroes based on where they draw their power.
I do hope that once the RPG comes out you try their system for making characters.
"A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet." - Star
Yeah, Biomancer used the Clone-Ranger to alter or mess with Con somehow after Chrono had been already going on missions; Biomancer didn't help create Con even indirectly.
Likewise, Con discovered how to enact time travel after they were created, so while OblivAeon's shenangians likely allowed Con to do that, OblivAeon wasn't involved in how Con actually works either. (Con doesn't seem to be a child of time like La Cap became either; just able to harness chronal energies.)
Con themself seems to be basically some combination of Unity's technopath power, Argent's Void-related power and knowledge, and Fixer's mechanical know-how.
"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."
Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.
Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.
And most importantly, CON can grow and learn, much like Omnitron. Combining that with Void Energy shenanagins probably means CON is more than just a machine, and gets into questions of "life" much like O-X
Con really is kind of interesting, in that magic/Void/skill is pretty much the triangle of main sources of things in the Sentinelsverse, and Con is at the confluence of all of them.
"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."
Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.
Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.
The CONfluence, you might say? :V
Yeah I realized that pun about five seconds after I typed it out and decided to just run with it.
"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."
Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.
Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.
But we like puns! Bring it back!
Updated list with some newer revelations.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
Updated for Legacy! Cool. We even know the singular entity's name: Wellspring.
I disagree about Haka's categorization. I don't think he gets his power from OblivAeon, or even knock-on effects of OblivAeon. He gets his power from La Comodora, and her temporal sciences. Yes, she got the start of HER power from OblivAeon, but she is far more integral to Haka than OblivAeon is.
I've internally waffled about that one myself. But not only does everything about how La Comodora works come from OblivAeon, it also functions because of OblivAeon. Travel across realities is only possible because of OblivAeon's shattering of the timelines, and La Comodora uses both that weakness and the power she's accrued through that fact to create Haka. OblivAeon didn't grant her powers intentionally, like a Scion, but she is wielding its power in everything she does.
If Haka had been created by another hero that crossed realities, Visionary or Omnitron-X for instance, who exploited the shattering of the timelines but didn't get their power from them, I'd more likely agree with you. Or if he'd been the creation of a different hero whose powers originated with OblivAeon but wasn't bound to it, such as Parse. Or if we had some indication that La Comodora would have retained some component of her abilities after OblivAeon was defeated. But as it stands, I sort of see her as a proxy of OblivAeon's powers.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
I’m not quite sure I agree either that La Comodora got her powers from OblivAeon. She got lost in time on the ship before OblivAeon shattered the timelines. Add on the fact that bringing the ship into reality from outside time and destroying it is what left her stranded outside time. Her powers came from the ship originally, tech she gathered, and experience she has gotten from using those.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
If I make a pan, and someone cooks an omelette in that pan, that didn't mean I made the omelette.
If OblivAeon shattered the timelines, and La Commodora used those shattered timelines to make Haka, that doesn't mean that OblivAeon made Haka.
I mean, you're saying that the timelines were shattered later, but time shattering makes bad things happen in every time period. Because time shattered. That said, while the initial time rift in Spanish waters that ends up giving her ship power is definitely an OblivAeon thing, he's not the power source. The Sea of Time is the power source. He just causes the thing that lets her get to The Sea of Time.
Similarly, while actions taken by OblivAeon end up coincidentally leading to Haka gaining power down the line, he isn't the direct cause of that power nor did he have a hand in causing Haka's powers to develop. Haka gets his powers from a temporal anomaly that is made possible by OblivAeon, but saying that makes OblivAeon the power source is like saying the geneticist that creates the radioactive Schmider that bites Schmider-Man is the source of Schmider-Man's power. OblivAeon is an enabler, but he does little beyond that.
I think you're argument isn't self-consistent...
Why not consider what Maria Helena does "exploiting" OblivAeon's effects?
But besides that, while I agree that the start of Maria Helena's story involved fallout from OblivAeon, there is far more of La Comodora's action in Haka's creation than there is OblivAeon's action. La Capitan could not have created Haka - she needed to master temporal manipulation. There is a huge amount of skill, power, and... technology? involved in what La Comodora does that is the benefit of Maria Helena's own growth and experience. In addition, she is the one who conceived this plan and made the choice to execute it.
Fair arguments, all. As I said, I was on the fence. I'll make the change.
To me it's unclear where exactly the "chronal energy" Maria Helena gets her power from comes from. To me, it's a byproduct of OblivAeon's shattering of the timelines. It's less "if I make a pan, and you cook an omelette in that pan, you made the omelette," and more like if Baron Blade goes to a Nolan Generator, captures some of its particles, artificially creates Isoflux Alpha, shoots it at someone, and grants them powers, they're still an Omega. You wouldn't say Gregory Nolan was the direct cause of their creation like he was with other Omegas, you'd blame Baron Blade, but they're still Omegas. The power comes from the same place.
Anyway, that's what I was thinking, but I see your point and I seem to be in the minority. This was supposed to be a reference, not just a list of my opinions.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
Updated with the Citizens we learned about in Sunrise (some of which we already knew through Tactics, but I wasn't aware of them). Still don't know the Seasons or any of the ones that never appear in either game.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
In case anyone is wondering, I'm going to continue to maintain this list the same way I have been despite the Power Sources podcast episode. C&A's approach in the RPG is very different from mine, being intentionally vague and open-ended, with many different ways approaching the same character. They're more driven by storytelling than world-building. I can see why they'd see Absolute Zero and Nightmist as being similar (with the "accident" or "cursed" origin), but that doesn't really explain anything from a "how the Sentinels world works" perspective.
Edit: I did, however, make a number of changes based on some clarifications from that episode, mostly about the nature of magic.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
But the RPG is focused on telling stories and making characters in a world. Both lists are made for different purposes. I would argue with a few things on your list but it is not for me. You list is to group heroes based on where they draw their power.
I do hope that once the RPG comes out you try their system for making characters.
"A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet." - Star
Pages