Kismet - Unsubtle Trickster Rule Question

She first hits the heroes. Whenever it says "deal x and y target z damage" the part listed first must also be the first hit.

That's the intent; I remember this "and" discussion from that Kaargra thread a while back:

but I still find the lack of intuitiveness irksome, especially in situations like the Kismet one above, where the damage action isn't even broken up syntactically by the "and," implying a common sense simultaneity. It could have been written: "deal x z damage and y z damage," or, better: "deal x then y z damage,"—both forms better at implying sequence, and often employed elsewhere in the game, making the distinction confusing or conterintuitive.

If, theoretically, you wanted Kismet to deal damage to the talisman and hero targets simultaneously, rather than in order, how would you even write that on the card, if "and" always implies sequence? Would you add the word "simultaneously" at the end?—I've never seen that in the game, so it seems that whenever individual targets have to be specified in some way, they must be dealt damage in a predetermined sequence, never allowing player choice, which feels arbitrary.

Justmythoughtstho.

Yes, I understand that everything ultimately happens in order, because otherwise the game would not function, and I never said there were no instances of player choice.

My point is, in situations where players are choosing target order, it is because the wording of the card suggests that the damage dealt is simultaneous, therefore up to players to decide the order. A quote from Christopher, in official rulings: 

"...anything else that acts 'simultaneously' goes in whatever order the players choose, as with all ambiguous situations in Sentinels of the Multiverse."

I feel that the "deal x and y z damage" wording creates an "ambiguous situation" that suggests spontaneity, and the order of damage should therefore be decided by players, as per that ruling.

If the word "and" always indicates sequence, then any situation where targets selected need to be specified by category, like "hero targets and the talisman," as opposed to "all hero targets" or "the 2 targest with the highest HP" will always have a predetermined order and never allow for player choice—that's what feels arbitrary to me, and I simply wish that less ambiguous wording had been used if there was indeed an intended order of actions (why not swap out "and" for "then"?).

But I'm also annoying.

Ah, got it, sorry for the confusion. I can assure you that adding the word 'simultaneously' to any of these cases would create huge amounts of confusion (because it is not actually simultaneous), and to me the small amount of loss of choice is worth it to have clear rules. But I did, for instance, push to have the order be explicitly flexible on the Termi-Nation Bunker card, because there the order really does matter a lot (depending what Modes you have out).

Yeah sorry I meant that "Would you write 'simultaneously?" question rhetorically, as in no obviously that would be confusing—I can see how that was unclear now.

For me, I just interpret the "deal x and y z damage" wording intuitively as allowing player's choice, so the actual rules end up feeling like an obfuscation, but maybe most people just don't get hung up on this like I do.

The only way around this that I can think of would be to write "in any order" as they did with the Termination Bunker promo.  Agree as to the overall point, the word "then" would have been much less ambigous.

I've always read cards like this with an implied 'then' after the 'and'.

And I believe that's the intention: Do things in the order described.

Glad I wasn't doing wrong then!