That's a false equivalency. With the exception of promos, which were introduced four years ago back when the game was still young, every single thing you listed was, at least, a deck of its own. New decks or new expansions play with new concepts, and that's great. Maybe one of the new heroes will have cards they can swap in and out of their deck. I don't think they will, but if you want to take that position then I won't argue.
But the fact that because new decks explore new possibility spaces absolutely does not imply that they're just going to start dropping huge new concepts on existing decks. Because half the things you listed are not hugely innovative, or entirely new, and half of the rest have those things as focal points, for decks or even expansions. Something as massive as customising an already existing deck is not going to happen with six cards for a single hero as an afterthought. It just isn't.
I think you're taking it as trying to be equivalent to a thing I didn't intend. Yes, it's a complete new mechanic they've not done before, not like the others. My point is that, at their times, the others were complete new mechanics unlike the others. If Khagraa wasn't out yet and had instead been an announced for Oblivaeon, and speculation had been it would include a complete new deck, people may have felt "it hasn't been done before, why would they start adding decks that aren't heroes, villains or environments this late? Won't happen".
Yes, most of those have been their own, isolated decks (which I personally don't see as a problem here... Again, new mechanics do new things, of course there's an aspect of it that hasn't been done before, that's what new means), and I know you've said "excepting promos", but if we don't except promos, we have examples of cards from already-released heros getting replacements down the line that you swap in and out.
Ultimately, it's a judgement call on if that's close enough to make it plausible (if not particularly likely). Although it's rather academic if MatchStickMan is right and they've said they'll never do it... that's the nail in this particular coffin.
Oh! I know! Grim Dark Watch promo, or the version seen on Dark Watch Annual #2 (see there: https://greaterthangames.com/system/files/downloads/Hero%20Challenge%20A... , page 6 of the .pdf). Considering there'll be the Xtreme Prime Warden drawn in a similar style, it wouldn't surprise me if the last stretch goal is this. Plus a promo Ra for good measure.
Edit: The Xtreme Prime Wardens are seen on page 8 of the same .pdf!!! Never noticed this before...! This is certainly going to happen guys...
Oh! I know! Grim Dark Watch promo, or the version seen on Dark Watch Annual #2 (see there: https://greaterthangames.com/system/files/downloads/Hero%20Challenge%20A... , page 6 of the .pdf). Considering there'll be the Xtreme Prime Warden drawn in a similar style, it wouldn't surprise me if the last stretch goal is this. Plus a promo Ra for good measure. Edit: The Xtreme Prime Wardens are seen on page 8 of the same .pdf!!! Never noticed this before...! This is certainly going to happen guys...
Nice Find! I both think and hope you've cracked the case!
I am hoping for 6 villain promos, wven if it goes against the "every villain" thing from the Oversized cards.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"
Oh! I know! Grim Dark Watch promo, or the version seen on Dark Watch Annual #2 (see there: https://greaterthangames.com/system/files/downloads/Hero%20Challenge%20A... , page 6 of the .pdf). Considering there'll be the Xtreme Prime Warden drawn in a similar style, it wouldn't surprise me if the last stretch goal is this. Plus a promo Ra for good measure. Edit: The Xtreme Prime Wardens are seen on page 8 of the same .pdf!!! Never noticed this before...! This is certainly going to happen guys...
Wouldn't that, even with a Ra promo, just be 5 cards? The four of Dark Watch and Ra?
I just noticed the Prime Wardens thing today, also. :)
I really like the idea of actual Freedom "Five" promos, with Unity finally making it up to the varsity team. It would be a nice way to round out the Freedom Five's story. I think, however, that this is probably unlikely given the previous stance about each Legacy promo being a different Legacy. I guess you could get around this by saying that the "main" Legacy does not actually have a promo of his own, but still ...
BLM
P.S. I know Unity plus the original Five is Six, but I wanted to avoid confusion with the alternate timeline Freedom Six.
Wouldn't that, even with a Ra promo, just be 5 cards? The four of Dark Watch and Ra?
I was thinking maybe Pinion would be involved to round up the team, but I agree that she's probably not part of the Dark Watch around the time of Dark Watch Annual #2... I'm pretty sure about Ra though, Christopher's smoke bomb and all that jazz... I don't know about the 6th card then...
Wouldn't that, even with a Ra promo, just be 5 cards? The four of Dark Watch and Ra?
I was thinking maybe Pinion would be involved to round up the team, but I agree that she's probably not part of the Dark Watch around the time of Dark Watch Annual #2... I'm pretty sure about Ra though, Christopher's smoke bomb and all that jazz... I don't know about the 6th card then...
My initial thought was KNYFE but ending on a Legacy promo is starting to feel appropriate to me and I could easily see Cleverest Legacy being a decoy from the real Legacy we'll receive.
I'm still sticking with Ra, NightMist, Guise, Scholar, KNYFE, and either Naturalist or Chrono-Ranger.
But, I would love to see some promo cards for ObliVAeon in there. Not a lot, though; I'm running out of hard, oversized sleeves, and I don't want to have to buy a pack of 25 for 2 cards.
McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."
Think alternative Dark Watch promos may be likely. Both the Freedom 5/6 and Prime Wardens have alternate universe promos so feels like that would add good symmetry.
Otherwise, actual Freedom 5 promos would be good too. Issue with that being yet another Bunker promo and breaking the each Legacy being a different Legacy trend. Though, having one of the final promos being Legacy would make good "bookends" with the first promo being Young Legacy.
And either way, am pretty sure the 6th card will be Ra. Think that was kind of confirmed.
This last stretch goal is supposed to be the last of the story they want to tell for SotM so a player aid seems odd for doing that and for the game on a whole at this point.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I wonder if the 6 cards will add more options to OblivAeon. We know that we have 2 Character cards for him. So this could be other ways he attacks the Multiverse.
Or the cards can be some sort of story/campaign mode. That list the key battles.
Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
For the most part I like the designs -- but Maia's outfit is bugging me, particularly the weird holes in the costume to show off her hips, apparently? Seems an odd choice for her.
I'm pretty sure those are white dots as they have a wrinkle which matches the red part of the costume and not specifically showing skin though I could see why you might think that.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Even if it's not meant to be skin (and I do not think it is), it certainly is an odd touch in an otherwise very tightly-designed look, which I find sad. Still, full mask Rook City Wraith is neat.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
With the exception of Ra, these look a little rushed to me, Bunker especially. It took me a while to realize that he wasn't stuck calf-deep in concrete (I don't remember the issue in which Bunker's right leg got cut in half by an enshortening ray, but it must've happened ;). I'm kind of hoping these aren't final versions.
I also agree about the hip spots on Wraith. If they're skin, Silverleaf will be along soon to explain why they need to go. If they're white, they look too much like skin and so also need to go.
I'd be right beside Silverleaf in saying they need to go if it was skin, but I'm pretty sure those are white patches. It would make no sense to have holes there, and would make the belt pointless.
I doubt that is the final versions of them as there is normally more polish by Adam on the cards. These look like he has the concept of what he wanted to do and to get them properly drawn but not enough for a final release. Look at update 2 with the Void Guard revealed and then how they look on the Stretch Goal image on the main page.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Maia's belt is a utility belt, and has nothing to do with holding up her clothes--it's there to hold gadgets.
To me it looks the same shade as her neck and arms, and I agree that she needs more sun (unless it's the lighting of that cemetery?) If so, I personally feel like that's a pretty funny take on boob windows.
What does she have on her hands? They look like a stunning device, but melee rather than projectile. And where is she; we haven't seen a "Peaceful Hill Cemetery", have we?
My first comment on Wraith is she looks kinda Spite-esque. Between the mask and the cemetery I think that's the feel they are going for.
I do wish we were also getting a Dark Watch promo set so all the teams got love.
Now I wonder if I want the foil Villians. I don't like playing with foil cards, but the errata sounds nice. And I am getting the foil Heroes for the love of the game.
I do wonder if the reason we got X-treme Prime Wardens rather than X-treme Dark Watch is because they couldn't figure out another Mr. Fixer promo power.
"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"
We've got 5 member teams for Dark Watch, the Freedom Five, and the Prime Wardens. Now we just need two more for TermiNation and one more for the Void Gaurd...
We've got 5 member teams for Dark Watch, the Freedom Five, and the Prime Wardens. Now we just need two more for TermiNation and one more for the Void Gaurd...
Well, the members of termination are also part of freedom five/six so it's not really a team needing five on my mind. The void guard could be paired with the original sentinels team if really wanting to. And that could really illustrate the shattering of timelines and such.
I do wonder if the reason we got X-treme Prime Wardens rather than X-treme Dark Watch is because they couldn't figure out another Mr. Fixer promo power.
Or another Setback power. The Dark Watch is tough in general, though it is a little sad that they all get left with alts which (going by statistics) are virtually all far worse than the originals, especially given that many of them are somewhat troubled originals, too.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
I do wonder if the reason we got X-treme Prime Wardens rather than X-treme Dark Watch is because they couldn't figure out another Mr. Fixer promo power.
I'm not sure where people are getting Maia's hip patches are white from. They're clearly a pale flesh tone, the same as her neck/cleavage and her bare arms... They're definitely holes, and I was quite disappointed to see them especially after all the debates going on here surrounding Mindphyre's design and her (admittedly far more gratuitous) costume gap.
Oh. It seems like I have to be disappointed again. :(
Wraith's hip holes (yes, that looks like skin to me too) make me sad. It's not that I have anything against skin - it isn't skin itself that is a problem, and of course regular Wraith has much more on show, and I'm good with that.
It's just that this costume makes it very clear that Maia's gone commando. I mean it's impossible for her to be wearing underwear with those holes in the position they are.
Again, I have no problem with people not wearing underwear. No problem there at all. My problem is with a costume that looks like it was designed to show off a lack of underwear. Whether it's intended or not, the costume practically screams at you that Wraith chose to go knickerless today, and is that really an appropriate thing to be telling the whole world while you're doing your day job?
Personally I don't fancy Lycra/Spandex directly in contact with my genitals anyway. That sounds sweaty and uncomfortable and an interesting way to get yourself a UTI.
Put some panties on, Wraith. Or at least stop making it absolutely clear to everyone that you aren't wearing any, because at least some of us really don't want to know.
That's a false equivalency. With the exception of promos, which were introduced four years ago back when the game was still young, every single thing you listed was, at least, a deck of its own. New decks or new expansions play with new concepts, and that's great. Maybe one of the new heroes will have cards they can swap in and out of their deck. I don't think they will, but if you want to take that position then I won't argue.
But the fact that because new decks explore new possibility spaces absolutely does not imply that they're just going to start dropping huge new concepts on existing decks. Because half the things you listed are not hugely innovative, or entirely new, and half of the rest have those things as focal points, for decks or even expansions. Something as massive as customising an already existing deck is not going to happen with six cards for a single hero as an afterthought. It just isn't.
“You gotta have blue hair."
-Reckless
Anyways, I'm excited for Komodo Dragon Bot and Train Pun Bot. Although Train Pun Bot is still overpowered.
Omnitron-U should actually be an environment. An evil sentient university.
With that in mind:
Grand Dean Voss
Professor Information
The Scholar- Full Tenure
Coach Unity (go Fightin' Bots!)
Pi Kappa Phi's Most Fratastic Legacy
Back2School Guise
This popped in my head when I read that http://youtu.be/VijD3WjREgw
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I think you're taking it as trying to be equivalent to a thing I didn't intend. Yes, it's a complete new mechanic they've not done before, not like the others. My point is that, at their times, the others were complete new mechanics unlike the others. If Khagraa wasn't out yet and had instead been an announced for Oblivaeon, and speculation had been it would include a complete new deck, people may have felt "it hasn't been done before, why would they start adding decks that aren't heroes, villains or environments this late? Won't happen".
Yes, most of those have been their own, isolated decks (which I personally don't see as a problem here... Again, new mechanics do new things, of course there's an aspect of it that hasn't been done before, that's what new means), and I know you've said "excepting promos", but if we don't except promos, we have examples of cards from already-released heros getting replacements down the line that you swap in and out.
Ultimately, it's a judgement call on if that's close enough to make it plausible (if not particularly likely). Although it's rather academic if MatchStickMan is right and they've said they'll never do it... that's the nail in this particular coffin.
So, how 'bout that Kickstarter?
I am a big fan of Train Pun Bot, but I respect this thread too much to derail it with train puns.
“You gotta have blue hair."
-Reckless
Oh! I know! Grim Dark Watch promo, or the version seen on Dark Watch Annual #2 (see there: https://greaterthangames.com/system/files/downloads/Hero%20Challenge%20A... , page 6 of the .pdf). Considering there'll be the Xtreme Prime Warden drawn in a similar style, it wouldn't surprise me if the last stretch goal is this. Plus a promo Ra for good measure.
Edit: The Xtreme Prime Wardens are seen on page 8 of the same .pdf!!! Never noticed this before...! This is certainly going to happen guys...
MrLeRobot...
Nice Find! I both think and hope you've cracked the case!
In the Grim Darkness of the future Darkwatch... there is only Moore.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
I am hoping for 6 villain promos, wven if it goes against the "every villain" thing from the Oversized cards.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"
Wouldn't that, even with a Ra promo, just be 5 cards? The four of Dark Watch and Ra?
I just noticed the Prime Wardens thing today, also. :)
I really like the idea of actual Freedom "Five" promos, with Unity finally making it up to the varsity team. It would be a nice way to round out the Freedom Five's story. I think, however, that this is probably unlikely given the previous stance about each Legacy promo being a different Legacy. I guess you could get around this by saying that the "main" Legacy does not actually have a promo of his own, but still ...
BLM
P.S. I know Unity plus the original Five is Six, but I wanted to avoid confusion with the alternate timeline Freedom Six.
I was thinking maybe Pinion would be involved to round up the team, but I agree that she's probably not part of the Dark Watch around the time of Dark Watch Annual #2... I'm pretty sure about Ra though, Christopher's smoke bomb and all that jazz... I don't know about the 6th card then...
MrLeRobot...
My initial thought was KNYFE but ending on a Legacy promo is starting to feel appropriate to me and I could easily see Cleverest Legacy being a decoy from the real Legacy we'll receive.
America's Dimmest Legacy?
He wears gumboots and a handkerchief on his head, and headbutts things.
I'm still sticking with Ra, NightMist, Guise, Scholar, KNYFE, and either Naturalist or Chrono-Ranger.
But, I would love to see some promo cards for ObliVAeon in there. Not a lot, though; I'm running out of hard, oversized sleeves, and I don't want to have to buy a pack of 25 for 2 cards.
McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."
McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector
Think alternative Dark Watch promos may be likely. Both the Freedom 5/6 and Prime Wardens have alternate universe promos so feels like that would add good symmetry.
Otherwise, actual Freedom 5 promos would be good too. Issue with that being yet another Bunker promo and breaking the each Legacy being a different Legacy trend. Though, having one of the final promos being Legacy would make good "bookends" with the first promo being Young Legacy.
And either way, am pretty sure the 6th card will be Ra. Think that was kind of confirmed.
Also possible:
5 player aid cards for OblivAeon mode.
1 combined aid card for villain(s) and environments in OblivAeon mode.
Prefers smooth peanut butter, but loves crunchy numbers.
This last stretch goal is supposed to be the last of the story they want to tell for SotM so a player aid seems odd for doing that and for the game on a whole at this point.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I was actually a bit disappointed that so few of the goals are component upgrades (although I know some are 'hidden' or built into other goals).
Would still be awesome to have improvements like luxury tokens, etc.
Prefers smooth peanut butter, but loves crunchy numbers.
I wonder if the 6 cards will add more options to OblivAeon. We know that we have 2 Character cards for him. So this could be other ways he attacks the Multiverse.
Or the cards can be some sort of story/campaign mode. That list the key battles.
Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
I assume the luxury tokens would have leather interiors, sunroofs, and cup holders.
For whatever reason, however, I always wind up getting heavy-duty tokens with the towing package, even though I never take my tokens camping.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
Well, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, right?
I get the cheap tokens.
I mean they are engineered to need replacing every two years anyway right?
I do like to give my tokens underlighting and I put a lift kit on the Tokens from Tactics, pretty fly.
And the 6 cards are: The Freedom Five and Ra!
For the most part I like the designs -- but Maia's outfit is bugging me, particularly the weird holes in the costume to show off her hips, apparently? Seems an odd choice for her.
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
I'm pretty sure those are white dots as they have a wrinkle which matches the red part of the costume and not specifically showing skin though I could see why you might think that.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I think it's her skin.
EDIT: Hmmm, it's hard to tell one way or the other.
My first thought was that its her skin and my second was well thats dumb.
If it's skin the Maia really needs to get more sun. I think that it's the same color as her arms - that is, part of her costume.
"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"
- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
Compare the colour of her neck to her arms and hips definitely different shades of white
Sapienta potentia est
Even if it's not meant to be skin (and I do not think it is), it certainly is an odd touch in an otherwise very tightly-designed look, which I find sad. Still, full mask Rook City Wraith is neat.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
With the exception of Ra, these look a little rushed to me, Bunker especially. It took me a while to realize that he wasn't stuck calf-deep in concrete (I don't remember the issue in which Bunker's right leg got cut in half by an enshortening ray, but it must've happened ;). I'm kind of hoping these aren't final versions.
I also agree about the hip spots on Wraith. If they're skin, Silverleaf will be along soon to explain why they need to go. If they're white, they look too much like skin and so also need to go.
Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm
I'd be right beside Silverleaf in saying they need to go if it was skin, but I'm pretty sure those are white patches. It would make no sense to have holes there, and would make the belt pointless.
You're free to do whatever you want to.
I doubt that is the final versions of them as there is normally more polish by Adam on the cards. These look like he has the concept of what he wanted to do and to get them properly drawn but not enough for a final release. Look at update 2 with the Void Guard revealed and then how they look on the Stretch Goal image on the main page.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Anyone notice what's around Ra's neck?
Why do I think his power will have something to do with his staff...
"See, this is another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart." - Mal
Unicode U+24BD gets us Ⓗ. (Thanks, Godai!)
Maia's belt is a utility belt, and has nothing to do with holding up her clothes--it's there to hold gadgets.
To me it looks the same shade as her neck and arms, and I agree that she needs more sun (unless it's the lighting of that cemetery?) If so, I personally feel like that's a pretty funny take on boob windows.
What does she have on her hands? They look like a stunning device, but melee rather than projectile. And where is she; we haven't seen a "Peaceful Hill Cemetery", have we?
ITs fitting that the final six promos are the freedom five and ra. However I'm not sure bunker needed another promo lol. And what about Unity? :O
My first comment on Wraith is she looks kinda Spite-esque. Between the mask and the cemetery I think that's the feel they are going for.
I do wish we were also getting a Dark Watch promo set so all the teams got love.
Now I wonder if I want the foil Villians. I don't like playing with foil cards, but the errata sounds nice. And I am getting the foil Heroes for the love of the game.
I'm a bit sad its not Dark Watch as well. I'm sure these promos will be so awesome I'll get over it once the powers are revealed.
We did get a Dark Watch promo with The Harpy at least.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Which will allow for 5 Hero all Dark Watch games! Super excited for that deck and that promo.
I do wonder if the reason we got X-treme Prime Wardens rather than X-treme Dark Watch is because they couldn't figure out another Mr. Fixer promo power.
"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"
- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
We've got 5 member teams for Dark Watch, the Freedom Five, and the Prime Wardens. Now we just need two more for TermiNation and one more for the Void Gaurd...
Well, the members of termination are also part of freedom five/six so it's not really a team needing five on my mind. The void guard could be paired with the original sentinels team if really wanting to. And that could really illustrate the shattering of timelines and such.
"Is it a bird?"
"Is it a plane?"
"No... it's ironic!"
I feel that adds a bit to their flavour though. None off the darkwatch are the big bad bosses of the multiverse, and yet they still make a stand.
Really Bitter Strike: Deal 1 target 5 melee damage. Destroy 2 hero ongoing or equipment cards.
Sour Strike: Deal 1 target 1 toxic damage.
Salty Strike: Deal 1 target 3 melee damage. Until the start of your next turn, increase damage dealt by that target by 1.
Sweet Strike: Deal 1 target 2 melee damage. The villain target with the lowest HP gains 1HP.
Umami Strike: Deal each target 1 melee damage.
“You gotta have blue hair."
-Reckless
I'm not sure where people are getting Maia's hip patches are white from. They're clearly a pale flesh tone, the same as her neck/cleavage and her bare arms... They're definitely holes, and I was quite disappointed to see them especially after all the debates going on here surrounding Mindphyre's design and her (admittedly far more gratuitous) costume gap.
Did someone cast Summon Silverleaf?
Oh. It seems like I have to be disappointed again. :(
Wraith's hip holes (yes, that looks like skin to me too) make me sad. It's not that I have anything against skin - it isn't skin itself that is a problem, and of course regular Wraith has much more on show, and I'm good with that.
It's just that this costume makes it very clear that Maia's gone commando. I mean it's impossible for her to be wearing underwear with those holes in the position they are.
Again, I have no problem with people not wearing underwear. No problem there at all. My problem is with a costume that looks like it was designed to show off a lack of underwear. Whether it's intended or not, the costume practically screams at you that Wraith chose to go knickerless today, and is that really an appropriate thing to be telling the whole world while you're doing your day job?
Personally I don't fancy Lycra/Spandex directly in contact with my genitals anyway. That sounds sweaty and uncomfortable and an interesting way to get yourself a UTI.
Put some panties on, Wraith. Or at least stop making it absolutely clear to everyone that you aren't wearing any, because at least some of us really don't want to know.
Just assume I'm always doing that.
Damn it, Ronway!
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