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Expansion details?!?!?!?

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Suman11
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Expansion details?!?!?!?

Have any details concerning the upcoming expansion on KS been revealed?  This is the type of information I will devour.  

morph147
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Sounds like after gen con we will know more


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Dandolo
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https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1920274/expansion-2018/page/1

 

I think what Paul and Eric say in this thread is all that's been stated publicly... at least it's all I could find.

Ameena
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Yeah, really looking forward to it since I found out about it a couple of months or so ago :D. New spirits, yay!


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Paul
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We will have 2 of the new Spirits in the Spirit Island Tournament at Gen Con! If you want to see how they work, come by for the finals :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syofZaENTvE


“Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” ~Obi-Wan Kenobi

Suman11
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Thanks Paul!  The only thing they did not mention was what day and time of the tournament.  I can’t attend GenCon but would love to watch the stream of the final.  

dpt
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It's Friday at 1pm to 5pm (Eastern time, for the streaming): https://www.gencon.com/events/137104

Suman11
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Very nice!  Appreciate the heads up.

Suman11
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Where is the streaming coverage of the tournament located? 

dpt
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GTGAlex
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Due to logistical issues a Livestream couldn't happen but some of you might want to check out this Twitter account that belongs to one of the winners of the tournament!:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JadiimJedi

(it's not a tweet thread so I don't have a good way to linking directly to the exact tweets)

 

 

Suman11
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Thanks Alex!

jffdougan
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Earlier today, Paul posted at BGG that the plans are for the expansion to have at least 8 new spirits. It will likely not be a stand-alone expansion due to the design constraints that would bring of including 4 low/ 2 medium / 2 high-complexity spirits -- and the low-complexity ones are hardest, because they've got the most restrictions on their design.

Paul
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I can confirm jffdougan's report! :)


“Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” ~Obi-Wan Kenobi

Trajector
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I'm amazed that low-complexity character design would be "the hardest." Sure, you have constraints ("don't be too complicated?"), but it would be much harder to balance a high-complexity character across the full range of behaviors.

I would be sad to see an expansion skew only towards high complexity. Somewhere in the low-to-mid-complexity range is the sweet spot for understanding gameplay, being able to trigger enough effects, and moving the game along.

Medic-Tank
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Also depends how tied to logic the complexity is. For example Ocean’s hungry grasp is a high complexity and yet i’ve found him easier to grasp for players than many mid complexity spirit. The whole lack of reach is logic since you’re the ocean and his growth acts naturally like the tide. Of course i then tend to play my spirit in a way to complement that weakness like trying to hold the middle of the board with the prancing fire deer spirit.

jffdougan
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Trajector wrote:

I'm amazed that low-complexity character design would be "the hardest." Sure, you have constraints ("don't be too complicated?"), but it would be much harder to balance a high-complexity character across the full range of behaviors.

I would be sad to see an expansion skew only towards high complexity. Somewhere in the low-to-mid-complexity range is the sweet spot for understanding gameplay, being able to trigger enough effects, and moving the game along.

Going from memory about comments that I've seen somemplace (I think BGG, and I think Eric rather than Dylan, but regardless): A couple of things ended up being true. First, Low complexity spirits seem to be restricted to one innate power and one special rule. The special rule cannot make a huge difference in how the game plays, and cannot be something that the other players need to be aware of in order to change their playstyle accordingly. They need to be balanced against what other spirits are capable of and not feel like they're underpowered just because they're more straightforward. In addition, there seems to have been some attempt to balance the elements that they required for their innate powers among themselves.

dpt
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jffdougan wrote:
Going from memory about comments that I've seen somemplace (I think BGG, and I think Eric rather than Dylan, but regardless): ...
Just to be clear, Eric is the designer and I'm just a playtester--he knows far more than I do on this. (And I think you're attributing things to him correctly.)
jffdougan
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dpt wrote:

 

jffdougan wrote:
Going from memory about comments that I've seen somemplace (I think BGG, and I think Eric rather than Dylan, but regardless): ...

 

Just to be clear, Eric is the designer and I'm just a playtester--he knows far more than I do on this. (And I think you're attributing things to him correctly.)

I'm aware of that distinction, but you've also been the playtester who has spoken the most about what happened behind-the-scenes and some of the mathematical considerations and constraints that were involved.

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Eric R
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Ted (paraphrased nicely by jffdougan above) explained some of the mechanical reasons that making a low-complexity Spirit is difficult. His lists of requirements for Low/Medium/High complexity aren't hard-and-fast - I don't agree with them 100% - but they're decent litmus tests. Also, there's the simple fact that Low-complexity Spirits tend to have many fewer mechanical knobs to tweak / ways they can be tweaked, so balancing them can be a lot harder.

However, there's another reason low-complexity Spirits are hard, which is that most interesting Spirit concepts can be better thematically represented as a Medium- or High-complexity Spirit. It kind of... hurts?... on an artistic level to wedge them into a low-complexity design.

There are exceptions: some Spirits fit nicely into that niche without too much effort. But the ones which don't... never quite settle down. Shadows Flicker Like Flame is like this; its design never really wanted to be Low complexity, and some people find its theming a bit scattershot as a result - but doing it "right" would have totally blown its complexity budget.

Gregory
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is there a date yet, when the new kickstarter will go live?

dpt
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Gregory wrote:

is there a date yet, when the new kickstarter will go live?

October 15, I believe.
Paul
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The current plan (which we don't anticipate changing) is October 16th.


“Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” ~Obi-Wan Kenobi