Challenge: Raw Damage

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/nuking-for-glory-max-damage-3823

I've seen Haka do 110 damage in one shot.

All of Voss's targets plus Decoy Projections plus dinosaurs under Savage Mana.

2 x Twist the Ether

3 x Obsidian Field

Galvanize

Inspiring Presence

Imbued Fire

38-card Haka of Battle.

I'll probably aim for what Silverleaf lists out with Haka if I try this in the app.  

I didn't miss it, just bringing up that the theoretical best has been worked out, with help. Adding help things can get insane.

Just to clarify, I didn't actually do the 110 damage thing, one of the other G+ players did. He posted a screenshot though, so it's legit.

Twist the Ether on Absolute Zero

Makes him the most valuable hero

But for maximum hate

For Fixed Point we must wait

So until then I say "Cheerio!"

Against Ambuscade on Mars, I built up a 92-damage hit with Parse's Critical Multipliers during a Meteor Storm. Her max damage, like Haka's, is technically infinite.

That was cards, though, so no screenshot. :(

Likewise, Setback can get infinite Unlucky tokens with a Meteor Shower out and then using 2x High Risk Behavior, he can nuke someone for 3 + 2/3rds (unlucky tokens) damage in one hit.  Add Wrong Time and Place and Cause and Effect and he can almost double it.

Since you are getting help, any hero can get infinite damage with incap abilities.

We once had a massive damage total via multiple hits on the villain...from the villain. It was Akash'Bhuta, who'd got out quite a lot of limbs and things were getting rather painful, so we had Fanatic put out End of Days. When it went off, we kindly let Akash'Bhuta's stuff be destroyed first before we took out the By Any Means that she had on her, meaning she was hitting herself for +1 damage for every limb that got taken out. It totalled to something like 104 damage and left her on 42hp so we didn't finish her off with it but it certainly helped clear the table a bit ;).

Single target right?

My one-shotting the Ennead with Defensive blast, or wiping them with Cryo Bot shenanigans wouldn't count for the damage to each right?

Cause if it did the Defensive blast did 224 damage to 7 Ennead.

Single Target would be far smaller, probably my 30ish damage Fanatic turn.

I set up some Fixed Point shenanigans with Fixer and managed to do 391(?) damage to all non-hero targets in a single round. I don't know what the single-turn count was - I have a draft of a document detailing it somewhere that I'll try to find for you. This was a real game, btw. It was set up with Fixed Point in mind but still completely random draws.

Now, what's your maximum cooked damage?

My output was not quite ideal

I used the Transducer to heal

But it's still quite a lot

to output in one shot

And I have digital proof that it's real!

I could have used the last charge of the Isothermal Transducer to damage Voss, rather than healing, but I was focused on only dealing damage in one shot, so I didn't.  Also, if I had waited a turn or two I probably could have found a few more instances of damage around to crank up AZ's Coolant Blast even higher, but that's okay.

114 which could have been higher if I wanted to keep cycling through playing Haka of Battle more.  Voss was quite sad only having Forced Deployment to play but no minions.  Ra got bored since all he did was provide fire immunity and some slight damage bonus near the end.   

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w4qe20pw0ik8tw3/photo%20mar%2003%2C%2010%2008%2051%20pm.png?dl=0

Powerhound- functionally infinite at that point, no?

Correct.  The only source of damage was from the environment deck with Primodial Plant Life. Every round Ra made everyone immune to fire and Legacy was soaking up energy damage from Voss with Next Evolution and LftF.  So if I wasn't getting impatient I could have continued playing Haka of Battle for a while. 

Not sure this would count, but I was playing as Fanatic in a game against Akash'bhuta. she had a killer turn and kept playing the put out more limbs card multiple times. At the end of it all she had every single limb out but we managed to survive mostly due to legacy tanking and being invunerable to melee damage (Next Evolution). so out of desparation I played End of days. at the start of the environment turn, i wiped out all of the limbs which proceeded to deal Akask'bhuta over 90 points of damage. so in effect, the card I played took out that total twice once for all hte limbs, and again at Akash'bhuta

I did 167 with AZ against Voss the other day. I decided to see how high I could get so I used coolant blast after dealing him 163 damage in one round. I could have gotten it higher with both Twist the ethers and the vicious cyclone on AZ instead of having one TtE on Tempest and the Vicious cyclone on Voss. It was on my tablet so I couldn't get a screenshot

AZ proved once again he's the hero

who likes fire more than Emperor Nero

After a round in the flame

he lived up to his name

and froze Voss below absolute zero

After AZ got hit with a River of Lava, a Gene-bound Firesworn, a Back-fist Strike, Final Dive, Exorcism, Flame Spike, Blazing Tornado, Living Conflagration, Hoarfire, Thermal Shockwave (which also hit Voss twice, dropping him to 47), and a Flame Barrier triggered by Thermal Shockwave, he let loose a Coolant Blast for 343 damage, for a total of 386 damage in one turn.

If Legacy had his ring, or Fanatic had her sword (or I had waited a turn, so that Visionary could use Mind Spike instead of dropping the second TtE), I could have broken 400, but I think I'm pretty happy with this result.

I thought that the Ongoing Imbued Fire would override anything that Twist the Ether would change the damage type to since Imbued Fire is a static buff.  Obviously it didn't in this case and that's a very impressive amount of damage.  

I'm still not sure what's higher, Tempest or Fanatic in that AZ goal. Tempest hits more, Fanatic gives AZ more selfdamage.

Dear gods.

IF and TE override

The core type of the damage inside

you can choose which goes first

So AZ isn't totally cursed

With fire that he cannot abide

Tempest can deal damage times five

One more than Fanatic contrives

But without a doubt

Embolden's where Fanatic wins out

Two more powers to let AZ thrive

You can take screenshots on most tablets. It usually involves pressing a couple of buttons at the same time. Google for your specific device.

Also, awesome Coolant Blast shenanigans =)

Even if it's an Apple?

Apple devices have the most consistent and easy way to take a screenshot of any device. Including that wacky Samsung tablet that has a hardware screenshot button for some unimaginable reason..

This thread makes me know consider playing Haka and AZ more, just to see the dps haha.

I've done in the high 30s low 40s a lot wtih fanatic but compared to some of these numbers this seems pretty tame.

While it ended up being not quite as impressive as some of the other damage outputs here, a friend of mine and I found a wonderful combo between Visionary, Parse, and Haka (this was playing the physical card game, not the video game). We had Visionary use her base power repeatedly on Parse to help her draw her Critical Multipliers, after which we got all three in play, and then Visionary kept using her power on Parse so that each of the discards would grant a +3 to the next damage a hero dealt (all of which we gave to Haka, who just patiently kept drawing cards like Haka does). 

By the time we decided to end the game (we were testing this combo out on Baron Blade and were waiting for him to flip before unleashing the buffed-up Haka on him) we had amounted a +80 to Haka's next damage from Parse's critical multipliers. For the hell of it I threw down a Haka of Battle and discarded his entire hand for another +20, and proceded to crush Baron Blade's 30 hp second form for 102 damage. Like I said, not as high as some other combos on this thread, but I felt like we could have gone a lot longer with Parse's Critical Multipliers and gotten that damage a lot higher.

As the active player, AZ's player decides which affects his damage first -- Imbued Fire or TtE. That TtE has a choice of damage type does not affect order of operations. But damage type occurs before damage dealt bonuses. Those must add after the damage type is settled.

Can someone explain how to get such high numbers with AZ? I assume he's healing himself with the backlash every time you hit him with fire, but how is he getting hit enough to do hundreds of damage?

The answer is just as you say

and AZ can get so far that way

Imbued Fire helps too

so the damage allies do

can be inflicted on AZ, OK?

But one step is missing from here

that makes AZ such a figure to fear

he can make himself burn

when he's damaged in turn

ramping his damage up into high gear

Basically, whenever AZ gets damaged, he then damages himself with fire before healing himself.  In the set up I was using, AZ's damage was at +8 (+3 from Obsidian Fields, +2 from Legacy, +1 from Imbued Fire/Focused Apatures, and +2 from Twist the Ether).  So if (for example) he was damaged for 3 fire, he could then heal himself for 11 (for a net of +8), or he can damage himself for 11, and then heal himself for 19, for a net of +5.  To put it another way, when AZ was dealt X fire damage, if he dealt himself damage once before healing, then he would take (in total) 2X+8 damage and have a net change in HP of 8-X.  

I had AZ get hit 15 times on his turn.  Even if X was 0 every time, that would still be 15x8 = 120 fire damage.  If X was 5 every time (1 + 3x Obsidian Fields + Imbued Fire) that would be 270 damage.  And X was almost always higher than that.  (Total damage was slightly lower than described by this formula, because after too many shots of damage above 8, I had to skip a self damage in order to heal AZ back to full.  But you can see how I got into the 300s.)

Ah. Now the healing shenanigans I'm very familiar with, but the bit I was missing was how you hit him with fire so many times. Cool.

How come Arcanist Lupus's latest hit with AZ isn't on the list in the first post?

No worries.  Just wanted to make sure it was noted.  

I think Powerhound 2000's Haka of Battle method has gotten short shrift. While tricks can be used with AZ to bump up the damage (for instance, Argent Adept could be used for many instances of 1 damage, and possibly replace Legacy with WGL to trigger AA a second time same round), AZ is fundamentally limited. He can only gain X per instance of damage, and Y instances per Round can hit him, coming out at some Y*X limit. We should be able to bump him to 600 with Argent Adept poking him.

Once Final Wasteland, the Block, or Enclave of the Endlings are available, a steady state where Villain and Environment cannot affect players can be acheived using Sudden Mana. Once that happens, Haka of Battle can be used until you are simply too bored to continue. The limit for HoB is 1 damage per card discarded, so he gains X-1 per turn, where X is the number of cards that can be stuffed into his hand per Round, but the number of Rounds is limited only by patience, so there is no theoretical maximum. TLTach, AA, Visionary, Legacy or anyone else that can be found to assist card draw can raise damage gained per Round played.

However, someone else does it better. Setback. We will need Haka for SM, Voss, and one of the above environments.

Cause and Effect is the final damage card. All we need is to stuff Setback with 10000 tokens to deal 10000 damage. High Risk Behavior x 2 adds 2 per round, but we do need Legacy diverting Villain damage (LFTF to NE) to prevent suiciding on 3333 damage hits. This will mean leaving out two of Voss' Minions to keep him from flipping or we are forced to TtE Voss. Fumbling Fool adds 5 per play. To get to the state where it can be played every turn, we need to fill Setback's hand with his entire deck. Not as difficult as it sounds... just a matter of time. If we have Visionary for TtE, she can help Setback draw cards with Innate. For last Hero slot, it would be nice to have someone that can let Setback draw and play, so for that we want Argent Adept*. But we do not seem to need Galvanize, so we can choose WGL. Setback is now adding 17 tokens per round. Looking Up could be utilized to generate more tokens, but we would need to deal with 3 damage taken per round. If we replace Visionary with PW Fanatic, AA can trigger on another turn. AA now triggers on 3 Hero Turns which heals Looking up and PW Fanatic damage, so long as Inspiring Presence was shelved. That's 20 tokens per round, and only 500 rounds to get to 10000.

If we use PW Haka, we can add an HoB for more per Turn. (Legacy uses Bolster Allies every Turn.) Now Setback is stealing the HoB trick, too.

Anyone with the decks could do this. It's just a matter of getting the right start. Once the required decks are made available by Handelabra, AZ's trick will fade. But it's a long way to Vengeance, so Haka of Battle will outshine AZ first.

I can play this out with decks, if entirely necessary, though you'd only be taking me at my word. Lupus already demonstrated that catching all Voss' targets in SM is achievable. Catching Final Wastelend is a bit more difficult but achievable with enough tries.

*Telamon's Lyra (Perform: Inspiring Supertonic, Accompany: Inventive Preparation) to Akpunkh's Drum (Accompany: Counterpoint Bulwark, Perform: Rhapsody of Vigor), reverse Accompany choices if necessary

AZ has one more trick up his sleeve

and it's one that you'd never believe

He quite cleans up the joint

when he's in a Fixed Point

The only infinite loop you'll achieve.

By your standards, the Haka of Battle and token generation schemes are also infinite, so it is not the only infinite loop possible. Your definition of "loop" seems restricted to "during a single turn", but the term is broader in scope. That is why I did not use the word "infinite" in my post. It isn't, and neither is yours. It continues until the patience of the players has run, so is finite. If you can arbitrarily declare an infinite number of TtE'ed Transducer iterations, I can arbitrarily declare an infinite number of Rounds to generate tokens. Infinite is infinite for both.

Given the same amount of time expended, though, AZ wins this one. Each iteration increases damage by whatever the general bonus to fire damage is. With Galvanize, IP, Imbued Fire, and TtE that's +4 per iteration (we could fudge in more, yes). That's exponential, but not infinite. Given the same patience level, the AZ trick will outstrip the token trick. With 500 iterations (an arbitrary number I picked for 10K damage at 20 tokens per Round), That's

Y = SUM (X=1 to 500) of (1+4X)

= 500+ 250x501x4

= 501,500

Though infinite as they do seem

there's one important diff'rence to glean

the chance will appear

for foes to interfere

as you climb to the heights that you dream.

As for technical terms I'll agree

these are not infinite loops that we see

It's just slang that we use

(and perhaps we abuse)

because it's very difficult to fit "arbitrarily large" in a limmerick easily.

Already dealt with villain and environment interference. See my first post about the token method. It's the first issue I presented, and solved.

I see that it is as you say

I missed it when I first came this way

I see where I went wrong

been playing Magic too long

(where loops are a technical part of gameplay)

I don't know if you're familiar with Magic, but in Magic there's specific rules dealing with loops of arbitrary length.  I looked up the exact ruling (because I'm a nerd):

But of course, this isn't Magic, so applying distinctions made in Magic rules is silly.  But this is why I was categorizing Haka's loop and AZ's loop differently.

HAHA love it.

There once was a Bunker named Sarge

With cannon arbitrarily large

First all cards put under

Then a terrible thunder

From a most impressive discharge!

When I played Magic, the Rules were constantly changing. I pulled Moxen from packs (stolen regrettably), and still have many of my Alpha dual lands. I stopped keeping up with official rules in 1998. Let's just say that my experience with the developers early on was incredibly disappointing. They were not game breakers, the way we are being in this thread, so the early game was easily made unfair. Richard Garfield did not predict the 1st Turn Kill decks from Alpha unlimited, and it may have been a tournament in Ottawa Canada where they held one (I was kibbitzing... someone borrowed my best cards for it) when they realized just how unbalanced the original game could be. Garfield did not give his testers 4 of each Alpha card to build the decks we watched win before the opponent played. It was left to others to deal with balancing the game, and I felt the game lost depth and subtlety as they overreacted. garfield stuck his nose in once in a while to design cards again, which was when the fun came back, but that was increasingly rare. The game lost its magic.

Setback's token trick qualifies for your arbitrary declaration, since it has no conditions. The cycle starts when "All cards from deck are in Setback's hand", so there are no conditions on future Turns that need be decided. He plays FF and then draws that same FF that Turn. AA can cause him to play and draw. WGL can cause AA to let Setback play and draw. PW Fanatic can cause AA to let Setback play and draw.

Since WGL will have a full deck in hand eventually too, he can cause Haka to draw 1 per turn (Setback draws, too, but we need to add a Play for that). Haka draws one for his own turn. He plays HoB, draws nothing, discards 1, and gives Setback +1 per Turn, shuiffles trash to deck, draws one card leaving 1 card in deck, which Legacy hands to him later.

We have not assigned AA or Fanatic a card to play on each of thier Turns. AA can play Silver Shadow to allow Haka to draw one more card per Turn, so Haka can discard a 2nd card to give Setback +2 per turn. Most of Fanatic's One-shots introduce complicating issues, so we'll not have her play anything yet. She could have Embolden on AA, which allows him to use Musaragni's Harp to Perform: Alacritous Subdominant again (and for no reason Accompany: Inspiring Supertonic) covers that missing Play I was looking for, bumping us to 30 tokens per round and +2 damage per round. I already handled the damage Embolden would deal to AA, since I was healing Fanatic and Setback 3 per Round using AA. Another Embolden on AA could help, but the point should have been made by now.

All Haka needs in order to prevent your condition limitation is, like Setback, have all his deck in his hand at his Turn start. I could fight for 1 card in trash or deck, since he has multiple copies of HoB, and if only 1 card is out, he must have more in hand, but why bother? I' need (cards played+discarded) = cards drawn in both cases.

I could redo this to pump Haka full of cards to feed Haka with larger HoB bonuses, instead of using Setback for Tokens. It simply isn't as efficient in terms of real time and number of rounds. Same starting point -- all cards in Haka's hand. then it's just a matter of figuring out who can have him drawing cards faster.

So I couldn't find the write-up I started for this, but I did find a photograph of Fixer's setup at the end of the game (sorry for potato quality):

Just looking at damage multipliers, that's:

• Infection [+1 damage dealt from Plague Rat's Advanced Text]
• Plague Locus [+1]
• Grease Monkey Fist x2 [+2]
• Harmony [+1]
• Bloody Knuckles [+2]
• Jack Handle
• Dual Crowbars x2 [+2]
• Pipe Wrench x2 [+2]
• Two Syncopated Onslaughts [+2]

Well, now that Fixed Point is out in the app it should be pretty easy to beat this, but I have a new record for the pile.

And even this is at least a score or so below what I could have gotten if I'd realized a mistake in my calculations earlier.  If I'd stuck around a few more turns to build up I could have probably upped my score by another hundred or so.

How was that managed? It is awesome.