Can a Push be a pull?

Push can move a target in any direction. If you are able to push someone in Sentinel Tactics, then you can move them away or closer.

So Drawn to the Flame can Push other people closer.

The word for forced movement was tough, because none of them sounded right.  Push can be in any direction.

Yeah, the terminology for that was discussed a lot during playtesting. I'm not sure anything would have been perfect.

Playing with some of my friends last weekend they thought of using the word shift instead of push.   I know that came from another game we played but I'm blanking on the name.  

I get that the name for push is pretty confusing, but the card in question is also called Drawn to the Flame, clearly implying that it's supposed to pull people closer. I'm wondering if making forced movement one mechanic instead of a separate push and pull mechanic creates weird scenarios where you push with some blast that results in them moving closer to you. It would be significantly more difficult to make a push and pull mechanic though.

push let's you move a target in any direction.  Drawn to the flame can move an enemy closer or move an ally out of harms way, or if you want to, you could move an ally closer and an enemy farther away.  Beacon can knock somebody straight away from her, to the side, behind her, wherever.

Shift is a Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition term that lets the user move 1 square without provoking attacks of opportunity. If I remember right, it was one of the words bounced around, but there was some concern that it would lead people to believe that push doesn't trigger hazard spaces.

Can you really push someone back and forth through hazard spaces for lulz and repeated hazard activations?  I suppose that's legal but a little lame.  Maybe there should have been a rule against changing directions with a push.

Lame? You havn't pushed a group of people into the heart of a volcano and watched them all burn evidently! It is quite the great time.

It's not the pushing into the volcano I'm calling shenanigans on, it's the push into/pull out of/push into/pull out of which seems to be possible with a big enough push value which seems sketchy.

Just remember, there a few characters that can push without the target being incapped.

Ra, can only do a Push of 1 with Drawn to the Flame.

Baron Blade, also only Push of 1 with Displacing Teleporter.

Proletariat, continues with the string of Push 1 with both People's Hammer and Hammer Sweep.

Omnitron-V, gets to push of 2 with Interpolation Field.

The last one is Beacon. She does a variable amount of Push with Head-On Collision. For her to have someone hit the same Hazard Space twice, she will need to do 3 damage, nearly Incapping a good amount of characters as is. Then depending on the Hazard Space, that will most likely finish them off the first time they go through it.

Lets also investigate the number of Hazard Spaces that is possible to only exist in 1 without any other Hazard Space nearby. Only the Lava Token and Absolute Zero's Impaling Structure. Both of which can very easily get more than 1 in a row, thus allowing the Push 2 to move them through 2 Hazard Spaces rather than Push 3. But now Push 3 can push them back between the 2  and get 3 Hazard Attacks! But guess what? Other than Impaling Structure and Token, there are no other Hazard Spaces that can only be just 2 next to another. Furthermore, they are both very easy to get 3 in a row as well, so there isn't much need to bounce them between 2 Hazard Spaces.

I think the problem is Baron Blade's Impulsion turrets and his myriad of other hazard creation, the way things are worded people are thinking they can move heroes around indefinitely, bouncing between a few turrets triggering all the other turrets on each hex until the victim is incapped.

Is it possible that the solution to this problem could be making hazard attacks limited? Basically, saying a Hazard attack can only trigger once per turn unless it's unlimited, similar to other action types. This takes away the functionality of a hazard triggering twice in on someone's turn if they choose to move into the hazard space and end their turn on it, but it would also prevent Baron Blades hazards from going infinite by pushing players back and forth, retriggering them.

Edit: Okay. So I looked in the rules. I believe this might be right as far as the rules state.

The statement about limited abilities(From Page 3): "Abilities are limited by nature. Each ability may only be used once per turn, unless it is labeled unlimited. Unlimited abilities still require an action or health to activate (depending on the type of action), but can be used mutiple times in the same turn."

The bold statement is interesting, but I see no part in the book that really defines what being used means. We do have the word "activate" however, which action and health abilities are both described as being done through on this very page. The description of ongoing abilities seems to imply that they aren't affected by this, since they don't activate but are instead always active. However, Hazard Attacks seem to be an exception for ongoing abilities based on this wording from page 9: "The hexes affected by the radius listed on the hazard attack activate when a target enters or ends their turn in one of those hexes." So here we have another use of the word activate, which means that Hazard Attacks are a special form of Ongoing Ability that activates off of a specific trigger. Since an ability are assumed to be limited unless something says they're unlimited, and not having to activate is the only reason most Ongoing Abilities get around this, I'd say hazard abilities are in fact limited, and can only trigger once per turn.

Of course, I'm not a playtester. This is just my analyses of the rules. I'd like to hear what a more credible source has to say about this information.

The distinction between Limited and Unlimited should only be for abilities you activate with an action/health/etc, not ongoing abilities. Ongoing abilities might matter multiple times in a turn, and that's okay.

is there a resolution to the Impulsion Turret problem of 2 impulsion turrets infinitely moving a target?  That was being worked on, but the text doesn't seem to have it resolved.

As a side question, this only came up last time I played, but HUD goggles only makes Tachyon's actions -- not abilities -- unlimited. So I could not use Lightspeed barrage multiple times per turn, the way we ruled it, since it is not an action and therefore not made unlimited by HUD goggles. Is this correct?

HUD goggles does not effect Lightspeed barrage because it is not an action, you are correct.

You can use Lightspeed Barrage multiple times per turn, as long as you pay the cost, also because it is not an action, so you are slightly off there.

There appears to be a designer disagreeing with you upthread.

According to the rulebook, all actions and activated abilities (Thermal Shockwave and the like) can only be activated once per turn. So YOU are wrong, there.

Foote, I mean. Katsue ninja'd me.

Meh, wouldn't be the first time haha. Ok I stand corrected then

That was a change from Playtesting I was glad to see.

Yeah, a turn of Thermal Shockwave-Thermal Shockwave-Thermal Shockwave-Thermal Shockwave-Aim-Coolant Blast was just TOO good to last.

After playing a bit more I can see why this would be true. Quite a few ongoing abilities have restrictions saying, "the first time this happens in a turn" to make them trigger only once. It would be a bit redundant if the abilities worked the way I described. I concede that I'm definitely wrong here.

I still have a problem with this, particularly when it comes to hazard attacks. The infinite push with the 2 impulsion turrets is one thing, but do you even need 2? Don't the impulsion turrets have multiple hexes in their Hazzard Space? Technically the rules say that Hazzard Spaces are triggered whenever a target enters or ends their turn on a hex in that space. What stops them from triggering again by just forcing the target to move to another hex in the Hazzard Space it's generating. It's the same Hazzard Space, but the rules for Hazzard Attacks say "Entering... a hex in the radius on the hazard attack," and by the way that's worded it sounds like entering a different hex in the Hazzard Space will trigger it again.

I honestly hope it doesn't work that way because it makes it possible for one Impulsion Turret to go infinite, and Turret Bot to be extremely painful to try to get passed. If you have to use a melee attack, you'd have to take 2 attacks, and risk a third if you don't incapacitate it, or try to run through it and take 5 attacks. (Barring that you don't utilize cover to get around most of the attacks as you'd have to.) However, if it doesn't work this way, it means that you can make a giant flaming tornado on someone as Ra, since turning a space you're on into a Hazzard Space doesn't trigger a Hazzard Attack, and since they're already in the tornado at the start of their turn, run through the whole tornado and exit without taking a single Hazzard Attack. That just seems wrong to me. Maybe I'm wrong about entering a Hazzard Space when it's spawned on you, but I remember seeing that that's how it worked because you didn't enter the hex, you were already on it, so it didn't trigger.

Hazard spaces don't trigger when they spawn on you. Hazard attacks can work multiple times in a turn. Impulsion Turret is an issue; until there's an official ruling, I'd do "each Impulsion Turret only triggers once each turn".

Can't you give official rulings? 

Anyway, this is how I'v been playing Impulsion Turrets as well.

I've been doing one activation for movement, one at TBC.

I agree that impulsion needs to be changed, but turret bot is as intended.

I'm sure "official rulings" will appear when there's a card section of the site to check, as the rulebook mentions.

Just a quick note, Luther is also one of the designers. Usually anything he says you can take as an official rules answer.

Is anyone keeping track of official answers in general? I have the feeling they're going to be very important soon.

If no one is, would someone with lots of free time like to take that responsibility?

Usually, yes. But not this time, hence my preface. :p

I'm not doing it this time around, but I agree that having a FAQ for Tactics (containing perhaps both official rulings and unofficial playtester pronouncements) would probably be very useful.  We've seen lots of basic questions which are ripe for inclusion in a FAQ.

We could just make a Google doc that anyone (or a handful of individuals) can edit, as long as we have some rules down about what should be a correct answer.

Sounds like a good solution.

Ultimately, all rulings and explanations will go into the "Cards" section of SentinelTactics.com. We're still building that database, but any compiling you want to do will certainly be helpful when that goes live.

That is an awesome addition, I'm looking forward to it.