In no particular order:
- How many power cards can you have out at one time? There is a hero with the ability to have 3 so it clearly is 1 or 2 but I couldn't find anywhere that says which (I'm guessing 2).
- Power Splice is way too random. On average, Baron Blade must spend 12 actions obtaining the 6 objectives. I spent 13-14 actions and only got 5 (not getting the average on the last turn cost me the game).
- Can you use Aim and/or Attack+1 on Area/Vertex attacks? It doesn't seem to make sense to allow it (but I couldn't find anything disallowing it).
- Aim and (a few) Attack+1 in combination are very broken. It is an almost guaranteed auto-incapacitate.
- Assuming the above two are allowed, Bunker is broken. Grenades + Aim + Attack+1 = insta-kill anywhere on the board. The only counter (at least for Baron Blade) is his one-shot that discards Attack/Defense+1 (but it's a one-shot so it just delays things a couple turns at best).
- High Reach numbers seem way too common (at least for Wraith and Bunker). It's easy to get them up to insane ranges (or guaranteed hits at closer ranges).
I'd appreciate any comments or answers.
Page 3 for the number of powers you start with.
The others are all your opinion, play a few more games and see what happens.
Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all
Aim only applies to one character if you are hitting multiple ppl with an AoE.
If you are getting one shotted by aims, try dodging more.
Aimed dice are only rolled up *after* auto misses. Are you taking that into account? Grenades have a lot of auto missess
with splice, you only need 2 successes. It's not bad at all. The hardest part is getting into range with it.
You may have 2 powers in play unless your character says otherwise, listed at the top of page 3 of the rule book
yes, but on a per target basis, meaning if you hit three targets with an area attack and you have 3 +1 Attacks banked, you could roll an extra die for each target, roll an extra 2 for one and an extra 1 for another, or just roll 3 extra dice on one of the targets, same thing for using aim tokens. The text in the Effect token box on page 4 of the rules mentions single targets.
It came be powerful, but rememeber, except for a few powers, aim is almost always an action to gain a single token and you lose any aim tokens during your Power up Phase and not everyone can build up +1 attack tokens. Also, remember if you get incaped, you lose all tokens that you have built up. Finally, remember that auto-misses still miss even when you use an aim.
Remember, teamwork is often key, if he's in turret mode, which I assume based you hypothetical scenario, he's a stationary target with finite range. Don't forget, reach does not add to the max distance for targeting area attacks. Also, the area shouldn't be a factor that offten as it's a 3 hex vertex area so unless the target is directly adjacent to some allies, it's not a factor.
I will admit, targeting computer can be pretty crazy on Wraith. But it also means the player's options are limited if they just stick to that power. Also, if you're trying to avoid that, stick to breaking line of sight as any hex that is higher than yours between wraith and you is going to block her ablity to hit you. I don't recall much on Bunker, other than I think the attack on the missiles card, but the same princple applies and that it has no effect on max distance for Origin of area attacks.
Thanks for the responses.
I'll definitely try playing some more games but I doubt my view on Aim and Attack+1 will change.
I hate super-random (probably because my luck usually sucks). Why not simply make Power Splice one success per action instead of rolling the dice? It's the same average and makes balancing the timing much simpler.
Part of the problem may just be that the first scenario is poorly designed (I think I saw some other people comment that the heros always win that scenario easily).
Those people have not played that scenario against me.
"Your goodness must have some edge to it — else it is none."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
So what is your grand strategy to survive and win as Baron Blade in the first scenario? The best odds I see are in a 3-player game where you "only" have to survive a minimum of 15 turns (assuming average Power Splice and optimal movement with no action used for attack or anything else) without being incapacitated twice. It's relatively easy to block long-range single target LOS but I could find very few places on the board to avoid being hit by area attacks.
Specifically, I'd be most interested in strategy against Bunker and Wraith as they seem to work very well together to create a very offensive team (lots of Attack+1 and Aim and Wraith has mobility for ease of movement while Bunker has area attack options).
Just confirming -- Area attacks do need line of sight also (from the Origin); and also line of sight from the attacker to the Origin.
Or its a problem with poor play by the villain player. They gotta find a better strat. It's actually slightly favored to the villain all things being equal if I remember correctly. You will find some scenarios slightly favor one side or the other and thats by design.
I can understand struggles on that scenario, you need a clever baron blade to take on the heroes.
I mean really, have they ever heard of a fair fight?
But anyway Here's a link that will help you out.
Really the hardest part of scenario one is resisting taking time out of your busy splicing schedule to Fusion Blast Legacy right in his smug little face. It is so very blastable. Seriously, look at his face. How can you not want to blast him?
sigh.
Save it for Scenario 2.
"Broken" is a very strong word.
I really dislike hearing it when people actually mean "I don't understand how this works".
I recommend videos of the recent tournamentm, where Aiming and Attack +1 tokens did not break the game. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBZBled0v3sKbA-Ge7ic9cSwl6Q5DvB60
Just assume I'm always doing that.
Damn it, Ronway!
Also, honestly, collecting Attack & Defense +1 tokens against Blade? BAAAAAAAD idea. Look closely at his power cards...
Honestly, that's the one time in the first scenario when I will go ahead and attack, if for no other reason than to take out the tokens. It'll often incap, also, which nicely sets the heroes back, and I don't even have to lose my position to pull it off.
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@Foote/@Phantaskippy, looking at the link, I followed that strategy pretty much exactly other than taking a single attack and misplaying powers in play (we started with 0 instead of 2 so Blade ended up getting 2 less Defense+1 tokens during the game). Maybe it was because it was 3-player? I didn't take time to analyze the math to see if it is harder for Baron Blade with fewer heros.
@Silverleaf, I'll be happy to look if you provide offsets for when Attack+1 and Aim is used (I don't have the time or motivation to wade through many, many hours of tournament play). Attacks already tend to have more dice than defense (but do have auto-miss) and Attack+1 just lets them load it more and Aim makes all of them 6 (or 5 if unlucky). Unless the defender has Dodge, several Defense+1, and rolls 6, it's insta-incap. Without Dodge, they will not have enough blocks to matter. I'll try a few more games with them but I'm heavily leaning to removing Aim (and Dodge).
@Rabit, except that it is one-shot and pbaoe range 6 which means wasting time moving to use it (which may or may not be worth it depending on how many total tokens and heroes you can hit). If Bunker moves so that you can hit him and at least one other hero easily, it's definitely worth it.
Remember that Aim doesn't effect Auto Misses. You would be doing a grave diservice removing Aim/Dodge as they are vital for some characters to use. Some attacks really need Aim to be effective because AutoMiss rolls hurt. Are you just gonna say "Sorry Ambuscade and Wraith, those innate Aim/Dodge tokens youre supposed to get you dont get anymore"? That kinda sucks.
Yes, Attack rolls more die than defense most times. But Defense doesn't have auto-misses which eliminate die right off the bat. Are you experiening games where people just dont roll auto misses? Thats just dumb luck of the roll then. A lot of heros/villains have ways to get more defense die as well.
Use your teleporter better imo. Make it so the heros just can't easily gang up on you. You should be able to take about 2 generators before they even have a chance to attack you. It's all about positioning really. I'd say figure out a better way to do it before you just assume you have the perfect strat down after one play. The missing powers to start the game is HUGE. HUUUUGE. Just my two cents.
The first two times I played that scenario, I was Baron Blade. I concentrated on teleporting and the generators. Oh yeah, we weren't considering the power generator activation power to be useable multiple times by Baron Blade either! I won both games and the heroes were asking "How can we even win this? Baron Blade doesn't have to engage any of us and we can't reach him to hit him." Take some time to consider each situation where you were attacked and figure out if there was a better option that you didn't take. That's how we figured out how to give the heroes a chance. Figure out what they did wrong, try other strategies, and see how it goes. In the first scenario, Baron Blade is about mobility and defense. An occasional offense might be useful, too. If the enemy has Tachyon, try the redistributor. If the enemy has Legacy, your movement should be able to keep him away. If they have Wraith or Bunker, dodge and the power suit may be good ideas if they can range you.
Don't forget that any terrain that is higher than either the target or the source blocks sight, regardless of position. This can be a life-saver for Baron Blade. Out of sight, out of....line of fire. Except Bunker's grenade launcher, but that is short-ranged and doesn't get boosted by any range boosters and Bunker is slow.
"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett
@Foote, yes, we played auto-misses correctly (and they were rolled approx expected amount). My huge problem with Aim and Attack+1 combo is given 8 attack dice, the target is likely hit by 5-6 6s (2-3 are expected to auto-miss and the rest will likely be 6 due to Aim). The only defense is to have 5-6 defense dice, Dodge, and roll at least one 6. Otherwise, you're out. I believe there were only 2-3 turns where both heroes could both attack me. If I do remove Aim/Dodge, I'll likely have the powers that auto-generate them give Attack/Defense +1 tokens instead.
@Donner, If you won as Baron Blade with only using Power Splice once per turn then your hero players were horrible (either they chose exactly the wrong heroes or their strategy was terrible (or both)) or else you were playing 5 players (and 5 vs 3 makes a huge difference for Baron Blade - I'm not sure as I didn't really look at that).
Yes, terrain is key but there were only 1 (possibly 2) generators near terrain that could block any area attack (even a vertex area). Blocking straight range attacks with terrain is easy.
8 dice, aimed, is a monstrous attack, agreed. The standard "defense" against that is an economic one -- how many turns and actions and powers did it take to get to the point that you can use that massive attack? The other team can use those turns and actions and powers to do more in the same time.
The secret is to go for the power generators they aren't near. The only vertex attack Baron Blade really needs to worry about is Bunker's and you can easily stay out of range of it. As for the effectiveness of the players, one was Bunker and was avoidable. The other was Tachyon and she rolled very poorly. I would either defend against her attack with the battle suit or redirect her attack back to herself. I was dodging practically every turn and keeping my defense tokens up by swapping between The battle suit and the kinetic redistributor. I don't think that rolling poorly or being unable to catch up to Baron Blade was playing horribly.
"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett
What attacks were you facing at 8 attack dice?
To be facing an 8 dice attack + an aim is reasonably hard to pull off while still moving decently. Most characters able to pull that off are limited enough in actions and move that you can avoid them hitting you pretty easily.
Just curious how these were happenning, I've played that scenario a lot and rarely faced attacks like that unless I was ready for them and baited the attack.
The 8 die attack was only 1 time from Bunker but he kept plinking with missiles or other long-range abilities while he built it up. Iirc, it was grenades with Aim and 3 Attack+1. One action per turn (not every turn) for the Attack+1 (and allies getting Defense+1 iirc) and then Aim and fire on the final turn resulted in 8 dice rolling 5 (or was it 6) 6s due to Aim. I did not have a Dodge and rolled 5 (iirc) Defense dice and blocked the average of 1 6 (so insta-incap). Part of it was going for the odds and losing (using Power Splice twice in the last turn for no successes on the last generator) but I'm not sure how you predict such an attack given Bunker can place grenades, Aim, and fire all in one turn. Baron Blade can't afford to gain a Dodge every turn (or even every other turn) and still win the scenario. I suspect Bunker and Wraith are pretty close to the optimal heroes in a 3-player game of the first scenario.
Well, Grenade Launcher can only hit so far away. And in a two hero game, Baron Blade takes every other turn, so you are guaranteed to have a turn immediately before Bunker. If he's spending two actions to Aim and Attack, then he doesn't have any actions left for moving closer, so if you make sure you end your turn outside the Range of his Grenade Launcher (which you should always be able to do with Displacing Teleporter, if nothing else), he'll never be able to hit with a buffed Grenade. It may require playing "too safe" when, on average, you should be able to end things right there.
Also, when you say "last generator", you mean the last one you needed to win, not literally the last on the map, right? Just making sure.
Bunker gets an Aim from a surge on a certain power (aux power source?). That plus grenade launcher is tough to run from, especially if he happens to get a good movement roll.
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And don't forget Baron Blade's Devious Disruption. Turn all those tokens into an attack on Bunker and anyone nearby.
"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett
Yeah, Bunker's Action that grants everyone a defense+1 token is awesome as Baron Blade, because since you don't need to attack heroes you can let him use it a few times and then teleport-disruptor for a giant 8-12 dice attack.
Also were you having elevation change affect movement properly, because you get to know Bunker's move roll before his turn and can get yourself out of range of a move->grenade launcher, and out of line of sight most rounds, becuase his movement isn't very good and often Bunker's best option is to sprint, which means he has a grenade range of 6 hexes, which means most turns you just want to make sure you don't let him end in the middle of the map.
Another great little ploy is to teleport into Baron's starting hex and just sit and make slower moving heroes chase you up there, and then teleport to the other side of the map where they have to chase you.
Everytime I have played BB scenario 1 the hero players end up very frustrated trying to get shots on Baron Blade, and having those shots do no damage.
It takes some dice luck or some splicing fails for the heroes to win.
If Baron Blade uses Devious Disruption, which heroes have to discard tokens? All heroes, all heroes within 6 hexes, or all heroes within 6 hexes that are in LOS? In another thread, I saw one statement I'm skeptical of but, if true (they said all heroes regardless of range/LOS), would change the dynamic significantly (making it a far more powerful power than I read it as).
ALL opponents, doesn't matter where they are on the board, doesn't matter if Blade can see them or not, doesn't matter if they have 1 or 100.
You can only attack things in a radius of 6 afterwards but it clears your opponents' tokens out.
Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all
The above is correct -- all enemies discard tokens, but the attack only affects the specified area. Also note the power is a One Shot -- it can only be used once per life.
Its a stupid good power.
Okay. That in itself could significantly change the first scenario. I thought the heroes had to be within 6 hexes with LOS (eg subject to the attack) to lose the tokens. I'll have to retry the first BB scenario (with the proper rules for starting with 2 powers out and for Devious Disruption eating ALL heroes tokens)...