90 to 120 minutes? So far I've played Oblivaeon 5 times with a few different groups, and one thing is certain: no game of Oblivaeon has lasted less than 2 and 1/2 hours, unless we gave up. Two of the games lasted 3.5 - 4 hours.
It's certainly not a deal breaker, but it does bring into question how often my groups will play it, considering how much of a time investment it is, compared to a few normal games of Sentinels. But, I've found there are a few things you can do to greatly simplify and speed up a game of Oblivaeon.
1. After your hero is incapacitated, don't change decks until you've played all of that hero's variants.
2. Don't use any overly-complicated environments, such as: Realm of Discord, Wagner Mars Base, Omnitron 4, Celestial Tribunal, Tomb of Anubis, Madame Mittermeir's, Magmaria, and Temple of Zhu Long. There's just too many complicated cards in them.
3. Use the "Primary Objective" shield.
The other shields are a bit random, with random factors controlling the game more than the heroes. We'd often wind up sitting and waiting, unable to do anything to bring down the shield. Primary objective is at least something you mostly have control over, helping keep the game moving.
4. Don't use the "Sanction" Scion.
It's not even a very hard Scion, but it has a lot weird steps to follow and keep track of. I'd either omit it, or (to preserve game balance) make it the last Scion to enter play each game.
5. Vassal Aeon Men only.
This one is admittedly the biggest change, but hear me out. Aeon men are the fiddliest, most cluttering part of Oblivaeon games. Aeon Vassals are the most statistically average one, not too easy and not too hard.
Just keep an Aeon Vassal card between each battle zone, and every time cards from the Aeon deck are to be played, you just put a 6 sided die, set to 5 (for its current health), to the appropriate side of the card. It's a lot less to keep track of.
Now, in order to keep game balance, when they're killed by Oblivaeon, instead of resolving the effect at the bottom of their card, THEN draw a card from the Aeon deck (the regular deck, including all types of Aeon men) for each Aeon man killed, and resolve that card's "when destroyed by Oblivaeon" effect. This will give you a more balanced/random effect, without slowing the game down during normal villain turns.
If any of these seem to make the game a little too easy (#3 admittedly might), then just fight him on advanced mode. I'm not trying to make Oblivaeon easier, I'm just trying to bring game length down to 2 hours.
Good luck, and have fun everyone!
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
Those sound like good suggestions. It would be too bad if the fight against Oblivaeon always only involved the same subset of shields, scions and environments, but all-day games aren’t always the funnest either
I’ll admit that when I first saw the Oblivaeon rules, I could see how they made the game more complicated but not necessarily more fun. I made some (half-baked) suggestions for ways I thought the game could be more improved (I suggested being able to bring any number of new heroes to the fight as old ones were uncapped) but the basic structure of the game was already set. Since the game has come out, I’ve tried to fit the cards as-printed into my earlier conception of what I wanted an Oblivaeon game should be, but the printed rules are too different to make it work.
Having said that though, I’m really hoping someone out there can come up with a homebrew set of rules that make Oblivaeon a fun thing a reasonable person can play in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, it’s just going to stay in the box for me, like it has.
Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm
My gaming group found the standard Oblivaeon mode too time consuming so we've been doing a modified version. After 5 or so games we're quite happy with it.
1 - Oblivaeon starts on his second side with H tokens on the devastation counter and no shield card; both starting scions are therefore picked from the bottom of the scion reserve.
2 - At the end of the first round only battle zone A's environment and scion play, battle zone B's enviroment and scion are inactive. For the second round this is reversed, and they then continue alternating for the rest of the game. The rule about adding a token if the scions outnumber the heroes still applies even if the battle zone is inactive however.
3 - Oblivaeon doesn't automatically replace a missing scion; a new scion can only appear if specifically brought into play by a card.
4 - Optionally, because space is tight in some of our houses and the game has a large footprint, we also sometimes play a rule where the environment decks just sit there as fodder for Oblivaeon and don't actually play the top card on their turn.
We've found that using these modifications speeds the game up significantly (we're getting around the 2hr mark consistently) without killing the "epic battle" feel or losing the fun factor, although obviously you do sacrifice a degree of difficulty as a result and there is an onus on the players not to use the inactive batle zone as a safe haven unfairly.
Interesting! I especially like the idea of skipping his first form entirely, and just starting with some extra devastation counters to begin with.
The alternating battle zones/not replacing Scions automatically might make the game a lot easier, but I have to admit, a lot of the time we just end up ignoring the Scions (during his second form) and accepting their damage, since they just get replaced the next Oblivaeon turn anyway. Also, I wonder if this reduced difficulty can be made up by simply playing advanced mode?
I'll definitely try it!
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
One hour and forty-five minutes! I used a blend of our two systems (mostly yours), and also found that the game moved along a lot quicker, without losing its epic feel. The only problem was it felt too easy at first, so we decided to play advanced rules, and still play a Scion into any zone that doesn't have one each Oblivaeon turn (for his 180 hp form).
It was a nail biter, with a last minute appearance by "Mr. 90 HP/Overtime" seeming to spell our doom, but by concentrating fire, the last player in turn order just managed to finish him off. If he made it to his next Oblivaeon turn, we would've lost.
To sum up the rule changes used:
1. Sanction was automatically the top (last) Scion of the deck, due to her fiddliness.
2. Complex environments were omitted, and players were encouraged to play as all the variants of their chosen hero before changing heroes (due to incapacitation).
3. The game starts with no shield in play, with Oblivaeon already at his second, 180 hp form, using the advanced rules for Oblivaeon and his Scions. H tokens are added to the inevitable destruction track. As per the advanced rules, 3 Aeon Men start in battle zone 2. Oblivaeon starts in battle zone 1, and the 'when you turn to this page, Oblivaeon does...' effects at the top of the his character card do NOT take effect, as he's starting the game in this form. A random Scion is put into play in battle zone 1.
4. Starting with battle zone 2, each turn, one of the battle zones is inactive. The following turn, the inactive battle zone alternates. There is no environment or villain (Scion/Aeon Men) turn for the inactive battle zone, but 'if there are more Scions in this battle zone than Hero characters' penalty still takes effect for the inactive zone.
That's it! We played all the way to the bitter end, and it was literally HALF the game length of our previous Oblivaeon game, with no loss in challenge or fun. I highly recommend it! Thank you Ironic Fist, for sharing!
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
I'm very glad to hear that it was helpful. I like the modifications that you've suggested, I'll give them a try next time we play. I would agree that my original specs tend to make it a little bit too easy at times, but as we sometimes have younger members in our group that helps to keep them from getting discouraged.
Always understandable. Gotta make sure the kids have fun.
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
I'm definitely trying this!
Interesting, I'm not sure if those rules make the game more or less challenging. OblivAeon doesn't have as much time to destroy the 5 environments, but the heroes don't have phase 1 to gather mission rewards and give you incap powers for later. If it does turn out that you want more challenge, you could consider starting with only 4 environments.
Well, it does still give them phase 1, just about 4-6 turns less of them. It definitely means you need to be more careful what player you use first, as they might be the only incapacitated powers you get to choose from late game. It also makes your 'mission' choices a lot more meaningful, as you might not have time to switch them out if they don't go well.
I've only played once with these alternate rules, using advanced mode, and it certainly wasn't easier than a normal game. It's uncertain how much had to do with advanced mode, and how much with having less time to build up mission rewards and incapacitated powers.
One thing's certain: it was under 2 hours, without lessening the experience. That's a big step forward in my book.
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
So, I kind of like the idea of the Shields and I think a lot of the extra time fiddling with OblivAeon has to do with the Scions, so I wonder if any of you tried something like this?
- Start OblivAeon in his second form, with the Primary Objective shield. Maybe pick the starting Scions randomly to add variety.
- The first time the countdown reaches 0, follow the rules on the first form for that event.
- Alternate play in the battle zones like the ideas above, except for checking whether to add a devastation token.
The main advantage of starting OblivAeon on his second form is to cut off the auto-replacement of Scions. I really would like to get play time down to two hours or less, though, and I wonder if the Shield just adds delay and is too much to have in the game. You know, I like the *idea* of the Shield, but it necessarily adds a phase of the game where the heroes have to go around gathering power.
The other thing I was thinking was figuring out a way to play with just one Environment deck at a time.
You could probably drop the second battlezone entirely and just play through the 5 environments linearly. Whenever a card would affect the other battlezone just execute it in the only battlezone you're playing with.
You'll need a few other minor changes like:
-changing the order of OblivAeon playing and destroying Aeon Men on side 1.
-removing or modifying the Nature's Compulsion Mission and the Infusion of Power Mission
-Removing the Arc of Unreality Shield
-Removing or modifing Nixious The Choosen
Otherwise, should work mostly fine and speed things up a bit... no idea what the effect would be on difficulty.
I imagine higher casualties, as every time an environment is destroyed, it's going to do 20 irreducibile damage to every target. It's an interesting idea, and could indeed greatly speed up the game. I'll see if my friends are up for trying it the next time we play.
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
I’d guess massive spike upwards. On the one hand every enemy gathered in one zone makes certain strategies stronger. On the other hand it’s not uncommon for one battle zone or the other to turn into horrific death traps that you want minimal presence in as you go do missions in the other to get the firepower needed to crack it. Phase one especially becomes nasty, though all of the shields break without the ability or incentive to go be in the other zone. Literally all of them have some key mechanic break. Arc of Unreality is obvious, as is the Source of Foes (Which notably just becomes slightly easier with Counteraction Aura broken) and Effusion of Pain. Ceaseless Ruin is probably the least shattered of them, in that it merely is effectively guaranteed to remove itself the turn after it flips. Primary Objective is the one that breaks most subtly. Namely you have to deal with Voidsoul more or less immediately instead of just completing your missions away from him. Because having him constantly flipping is a huge liability, in a mode where you’re already taking constant massive damage because you can’t just run away from +H damage Oblivaeon.
What about having two battle zones for the heroes, Scions, etc, but only one Environment deck that acts simultaneously in both, affecting everything in both zones?
Edit: I could see this working one of two ways -
1. Two villain play areas, and the Environment deck causes effects globally across both. For example, X on a Velociraptor Pack is the total number of Velociraptors on the whole table, and it attacks the lowest HP target on the whole table. You could do this with both Scions playing, or alternating A-B-A-B by round.
2. Two villain play areas, and the Environment deck applies only to the active battle zone's play area. You still only play one Environment card per round. The target of the Velociraptor attack is then the target with the lowest HP *in the active battle zone.* I'd rather not do this by associating Environment cards with each zone (though you could do that) to avoid messing with intended environment self-interactions, so X is still the total number of Velociraptors on the table.
Constants and Variables
Constant: Oblivaeon is immune to damage dealt by Oblivaeon.
Variables: By Oblivaeon's current form, how Oblivaeon flips to his next form, is the shield down yet?
Not sure putting it like that will speed it up in any way, but it's good to keep in mind.
OKAY. After playing another game of Oblivaeon with the group, I think we've found the best way to keep games to around 90-120 minutes, and keep the spirit of the game intact. Again, much thanks to user Ironic Fist, for his contributions.
-Omit the scion 'Sanction'. She isn't even one of the harder Scions, she just involves a lot of fiddly bookkeeping. If anything, make her the last Scion to enter play. I'd also consider omiting 'Dark Mind'. Although I love her story, it can be frustrating to keep track of every time an ongoing card is revealed or enters play.
-Start the game with only 1 environment in play, drawing cards from it for both battle zones. Environment cards in different battle zones do not affect each other. When Oblivaeon erases the environment, only the battle zone that has Oblivaeon in it suffers the '20 irreducible damage'.
-Start Oblivaeon at his 2nd, 180 hp form. Do not perform the 'when you turn to this page' effects at the top of the page.
-The first turn, only perform the environment and Scion/Aeon villain turn for battle zone 1. Next turn, only perform these turns for battle zone 2. Keep alternating in this manner, only activating one of the battle zones each turn. The only exception is at the start of either villain turn, check both zones to see if there are more Scions than heroes present, and if so, add tokens to the inevitable destruction track for both zones.
These changes may sound like they make the game easier, but they from my experience they don't seem to. They cut down the time player's have to complete missions, and shortens the time before heroes have to face Oblivaeon's final form.
In any case, always do what's fun!
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
As I've started to play this more, I've grown fond of the two battle zone experience. I think it might be fun, on a lark, to play games that are halfway between normal and the "epic" of full Oblivaeon. I'm thinking that you could do two battleones, but skip Oblivaeon and the Scions, keep the Battle Zone rules and the Devastation card, though, so that if you ignore a battlezone, you still get devastation markers.
Then, populate each battle zone with an environment and a villain, throw in the missions to give the heroes more help against this bigger threat, but otherwise use the same rules to move between battle zones and the same game timing. Just cut Oblivaeon's turn out of the mix and check the devastation markers at the start of each villain turn instead.
Since devastation markers will populate so much more slowly, make it so that if even one environment goes, it's automatically game over. Don't do any hero replacements either as, theoretically, giving them the mission cards will be enough of a balancer.
I haven't tried it and it might need tweaking, but it could be a fun way to get more out of the Oblivaeon mechanics than just Oblivaeon matchups themselves.
In fact, I think you could do four different stages of complexity (might be a way to ease yourself or your group up to a full Oblivaeon fight):
1. Stage One: Two Battlefields
Do the above described approach, using two villains and environments, the battle zone cards, the devastation card, and the mission cards.
2. Stage Two: Redacted
Set up a normal Oblivaeon game, except with no shield card and no Oblivaeon. Use Redacted's back side in Oblivaeon's place.
3. Stage Three: Unshielded
At this point you should feel more comfortable with most of the mechanics, so bring in that three page booklet of horror, Oblivaeon himself. Just no shield yet.
4. Stage Four: Full Oblivaeon
When you're ready for that four hour epic, go all in!
Stages 1 sounds interesting. I'll see if my friends are up to trying it.
Stage 2 seems like it'd be very short, considering there's only 90 hp to get through, combined with the collossal amount of damage redacted does, and no replacement heroes after they're incapacitated. I could be wrong though.
Stage 3 without a shield, you'd need a different condition from moving from his first form to his second, and it'd have to significantly easier than bringing down a shield. Personally, I think if you're going to omit the shield, you have to omit the first form entirely.
Interesting ideas!
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
If he ticks down to 0 he goes to the second form, right? Also, with no initial shield, you get an actual shot at that 10,000! I mean, it's worth a shot, right? :-)
The group where I play Sentinels most frequently has decided on the following house rules for games of Oblivaeon, and so far the games haven't been long:
1. Skip his first form and shield entirely.
As I mentioned before, this actually makes the game harder, as you'll have less turns to complete missions, and are less likely to have incapacitated hero cards in your play area (Oblivaeon's First Form '+H damage to all attacks' usually wipes out a few players early on). Counter-intuitively, in games of Oblivaeon, you want to die once in the first few turns, for the incapacitated abilities.
2. Don't add 'inevitable destruction' tokens for zones having more Scions than heroes.
This is to balance the increased difficulty from skipping his first form. Also, with less time to get prepared, defeating his second form is only possible if you ignore at least some of the enemy Scions.
The overall results have been good, not too easy and not too hard. I recommend it, at least as an option. It's the only way I've found to keep games under 2 hours.
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
It's been right around 4 hours in the four or so group games I've done so far. When I've soloed, it's been a tad longer - probably five on average the three or so times.
I'm still trying to get enough Sentinels Loving friends together so I can actually RUN the darn game... OblivAeon is the one mode I'm afraid to run solo on...
I too was trying to work out ways to make the Oblivaeon event a little more casual and approachable (seeing as my gaming group likes to play Sentinels on a slow business day at one of our local pubs).
The idea about skipping phase 1 and Shield sounds great to shave some time. To make up for the reduced time, each player could start with their choice of incapacitated hero?
My first swing at a custom, faster, easier ruleset was:
Starting Shield is only either "The Ceasless Ruin" or "The Effusion of Pain"
<<i.e., starting Scion is either Nixious or Borr>>
Remove Progeny, Aeon Master, Voidsoul, and Rainek Kel'Voss from the game
<<no difficulty 3 Scions, less Scions>>
Bottom of Scion reserve is shuffled Sanction, Faultless, Empyreon. Shuffle remaining Scions and put them under the Scion reserve card
<<easiest Scions first, then harder>>
At the start of game giving each player 2 Objective Cards, choose one to put on the bottom of the Mission Deck, flip the other Objective Card
<<i.e., everyone starts with a free reward>>
Remove Oblivaeon's "replace a Scion" rules, instead playing the top card of the Aeon Men deck in that Battle Zone.
<<This reduces the threat and complexity but you can't let all those Aeon Men build up in case Oblivaeon blows them up and lands a bunch of Devastation Tokens or other nasty effects.>>
If a Villain One-Shot card puts the bottom card of the Scion Reserve into play, remove that Villain One-Shot card from the game.
<<Between the Scion deck and the Oblivaeon deck, there are 5 One-Shots that put a new Scion into play. If you get rid of Oblivaeon's "replace a Scion" rules, this means you'll see max 7 Scions>>
This was a solo fight with 4 heroes ... we did pretty well. Only lost 1 environment actually. Maybe 9 incapicated heroes total? Perhaps too easy but it was faster! I actually forgot to do the thing where I played extra Aeon Men instead of replacing Scions, so that might have complicated matters more.
Permutations I'd try next are not limiting the starter Shield, either random or The Primary Objective. Not gifting a free Reward. Maybe something where a Battle Zone can't be Scion-free so either move a Scion to hassle there or play a new one if there is only one in play. Still limit the Scion deck to 7 total.
That sounds really easy to me. But I know easy for one player can still be a challenge for another.
Strangely enough, I'd say as long as the players aren't new to the game, Oblivaeon isn't top tier difficulty, like Iron Legacy or Dreamer, but closer to mid-tier, like La Capitan.
The rule variants here are not to make him easier, but a faster and more enjoyable gaming experience.
"It's all chaos. Be kind."
I'd agree with that assessment of his difficulty level. Which is why I'd hate to see any rules variations make him too easy. That said, I've played him as is about half a dozen times now and I'll probably just stick with that! :-)