However, since drug cards can't go to the trash, if you Experiment on Spite's deck and draw a Drug card and something else, you would end up playing the Drug card, right?
Yeezh. Add (regular) Spite to "decks never to experiment with" list. Since AOG Spite's drug cards aren't in the deck, though, he might be a more interesting prospect. With the drugs missing, he has 19 cards: 8 one-shots, 2 ongoings, and 9 victims. Wonder how the math would work out there?
Yeezh. Add (regular) Spite to "decks never to experiment with" list. Since AOG Spite's drug cards aren't in the deck, though, he might be a more interesting prospect. With the drugs missing, he has 19 cards: 8 one-shots, 2 ongoings, and 9 victims. Wonder how the math would work out there?
Actually, my main tactic against Spite is to get him to flip as quickly as possible, so I love the idea of him playing those drugs from the bottom of the deck.
Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel
I liked MigrantP's point last night on the Handelabra live stream which is that sometimes having the best odds doesn't always make for a great target and that the potential results make some low odd characters still worth it. Specifically he was talking about Unity being a good experiment choice even if her odds are low since the potential of what happens if you do get a match can be quite good.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I liked MigrantP's point last night on the Handelabra live stream which is that sometimes having the best odds doesn't always make for a great target and that the potential results make some low odd characters still worth it. Specifically he was talking about Unity bring a good experiment choice even if her odds are low since the potential of what happens if you do get a match can be quite good.
Agreed with this. Experimenting on Unity once got me Swift Bot and Turret Bot out before her first turn and she just ruled the board from there.
Unity tends to either be kind of useless or just totally wreck everything whilst laughing savagely amid her army of killer robots :D.
Yeah, her success really depends on how much her teammates are willing/able to protect her bots. Most of the times I've had the most success with her, it's because of a timely Heroic Interception, Ground Pound or Grease Gun, or a Counterpoint Bulwark on Stealth Bot.
Yeezh. Add (regular) Spite to "decks never to experiment with" list. Since AOG Spite's drug cards aren't in the deck, though, he might be a more interesting prospect. With the drugs missing, he has 19 cards: 8 one-shots, 2 ongoings, and 9 victims. Wonder how the math would work out there?
Actually, my main tactic against Spite is to get him to flip as quickly as possible, so I love the idea of him playing those drugs from the bottom of the deck.
I do the opposite -- deck-control the heck out of him (Visionary, Wraith), keep him from damaging people (Legacy), and plink away. Usually I can kill him before he flips, unless I get some unlucky double-draws. What do you do when he pulls that "put ongoings/equipment back into your hand" drug early on, and none of your people have their setups out?
I do the opposite -- deck-control the heck out of him (Visionary, Wraith), keep him from damaging people (Legacy), and plink away. Usually I can kill him before he flips, unless I get some unlucky double-draws. What do you do when he pulls that "put ongoings/equipment back into your hand" drug early on, and none of your people have their setups out?
Dig in for a very long game. Maybe give up. Not sure. Knowing that drug is coming and with no intention to inflict any damage before Spite flips, I focus pretty quickly on getting set up.
I've almost always taken Wraith against him and used double stun bolts to nerf most of his damage, so if it takes a long time to get the drugs out, I'm usually still doing ok on hit points.
Mind you, we're talking about maybe a half dozen games total.
Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel
I'm surprised nobody has said this yet but the Sentinels pair incredibly well with SS Tachyon, because the large majority of their deck consist of high damaging one shots.
EDIT: I did not realized I poseted the exact same thing earlier. I thought this was a recent thread, sorry for the redundancy derp
"A delayed game is eventually good. A rushed game is bad forever"
I'm surprised nobody has said this yet but the Sentinels pair incredibly well with SS Tachyon, because the large majority of their deck consist of high damaging one shots.EDIT: I did not realized I poseted the exact same thing earlier. I thought this was a recent thread, sorry for the redundancy derp
No apologies needed!
Since this was brought back up...
grysqrl wrote:
Rather than speculate, I have calculated the odds for each hero of pulling a matching pair (assuming we know nothing about cards in hand, play, trash). Here we go:
Sentinels - 66%
Tachyon - 65%
Legacy - 60%
Nightmist - 53%
Setback - 53%
Wraith - 51%
Scholar - 50%
Naturalist - 49%
Expat - 49%
Parse - 49%
Visionary - 47%
Tempest - 47%
Fanatic - 46%
KNYFE - 45%
Haka - 44%
Ra - 44%
Chrono-Ranger - 43%
Bunker - 41%
Absolute Zero - 40%
Argent Adept - 37%
Omnitron-X - 34%
Mr. Fixer - 32%
Unity - 32%
Anyone have time to calc this for Captain Cosmic and Skyscraper?
"See, this is another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart." - Mal
Quantum mechanical analogies are appropriate for Super Scientific Tachyon!
What we really care about is not the odds of getting *a* successful Experiment for each deck, but the *expectation value* of an Experiment from each deck. This would be a weighted average: the odds of an Experiment succeeding times the "impact factor" of that successful Experiment. So a hero whose deck has abysmal odds of success but contains two one-shots reading "the heroes win instantly" might have a higher expectation value than a hero deck with high odds of success but all cards read "deal 1 target 1 melee damage."
Of course, defining that impact factor...sounds like a good master's thesis. So we'll probably never really get the bottom line here, and we'll have to live with the anecdotal experience that Experiments on Unity can be awesome.
Another factor is whether you have someone on the team that can help you draw from the trash like AA, Tempest or Scholar, or whether you can do it yourself with Instrumental Conjuration or Robot Reclaimation. Then even an 'unsuccessful' Experiment might put a valuable card someplace you can get to it.
Quantum mechanical analogies are appropriate for Super Scientific Tachyon!
What we really care about is not the odds of getting *a* successful Experiment for each deck, but the *expectation value* of an Experiment from each deck. This would be a weighted average: the odds of an Experiment succeeding times the "impact factor" of that successful Experiment. So a hero whose deck has abysmal odds of success but contains two one-shots reading "the heroes win instantly" might have a higher expectation value than a hero deck with high odds of success but all cards read "deal 1 target 1 melee damage."
Of course, defining that impact factor...sounds like a good master's thesis. So we'll probably never really get the bottom line here, and we'll have to live with the anecdotal experience that Experiments on Unity can be awesome.
True and awesome! Now if I could just find a university where that could be MY Masters thesis...
"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett
The raw % are good, but one of the reasons why I almost never use SS Tachyon with another hero is because SST has a bunch of one-shots and bursts, so the chances of playing something are good, plus, even if she doesn't dumping a burst into the trash from the bottom of her deck helps her end game, so it's a win big/win small no matter what. How many other heroes benefit from having cards in their trash consistently?
Legacy seems like a good choice because he's not going to screw himself, or others over. Nightmist is dangerous to herself (and others, with Oblivion), but if she has her relics set up it could be a good panic button.
SST has an obvious combo with Dark Visionary and any other character that lets you look at the bottom of a deck, but I find it's more beneficial for Dark Visionary to stack the villain deck (one play per round instead of one out of three to five), so I generally only do so if I draw a Precognition (IIRC, the one that lets you stack with the top 3 cards of the villain deck) or Wraith is in the game. What other characters would let you stack the bottom of a deck without the option to use it on the villains?
...also, Tachyon is probably the only hero with nonzero expectation value for a *failed* Experiment, because even if the cards go to her trash she charges up her attacks!
Depending on how far they were down the deck, you weren't going to see them for a long time anyway. However, SST does work better with a hero who can recover trashed cards is helpful for those situations.
Sure, but I don't mind seeing Light Speed Barrage later in the game, that means I would be drawing more valuable early card games and not have my hand crowded with cards that I probably won't use until the moment they can take out the villain. So not seeing it for awhile is just fine by me.
It's definitely good having those cards later on, but my experience playing her is that it's helped Tachyon throw out large nukes on the villain much earlier than she'd been able to do otherwise. I don't have the numbers, but I'd be curious what the average increase is in her LSB damage from using her power on herself every turn.
Correct!
Yeezh. Add (regular) Spite to "decks never to experiment with" list. Since AOG Spite's drug cards aren't in the deck, though, he might be a more interesting prospect. With the drugs missing, he has 19 cards: 8 one-shots, 2 ongoings, and 9 victims. Wonder how the math would work out there?
Actually, my main tactic against Spite is to get him to flip as quickly as possible, so I love the idea of him playing those drugs from the bottom of the deck.
Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel
I liked MigrantP's point last night on the Handelabra live stream which is that sometimes having the best odds doesn't always make for a great target and that the potential results make some low odd characters still worth it. Specifically he was talking about Unity being a good experiment choice even if her odds are low since the potential of what happens if you do get a match can be quite good.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
Unity tends to either be kind of useless or just totally wreck everything whilst laughing savagely amid her army of killer robots :D.
I am the Wordweaver...
Basically, I like writing stuff ;)
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
I do the opposite -- deck-control the heck out of him (Visionary, Wraith), keep him from damaging people (Legacy), and plink away. Usually I can kill him before he flips, unless I get some unlucky double-draws. What do you do when he pulls that "put ongoings/equipment back into your hand" drug early on, and none of your people have their setups out?
Dig in for a very long game. Maybe give up. Not sure. Knowing that drug is coming and with no intention to inflict any damage before Spite flips, I focus pretty quickly on getting set up.
I've almost always taken Wraith against him and used double stun bolts to nerf most of his damage, so if it takes a long time to get the drugs out, I'm usually still doing ok on hit points.
Mind you, we're talking about maybe a half dozen games total.
Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel
Getting Construction Pylon and Scrap Metal in play out of turn is my favorite. Especially if you have Flash Forge in hand.
Lot's of limited cards isn't always a bad thing, like on AZ it allows him to bridge between ongoing and Equips and greatly ups his odds of success.
I'm surprised nobody has said this yet but the Sentinels pair incredibly well with SS Tachyon, because the large majority of their deck consist of high damaging one shots.
EDIT: I did not realized I poseted the exact same thing earlier. I thought this was a recent thread, sorry for the redundancy derp
"A delayed game is eventually good. A rushed game is bad forever"
-Shigeru Miyamoto
No apologies needed!
Since this was brought back up...
Anyone have time to calc this for Captain Cosmic and Skyscraper?
"See, this is another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart." - Mal
Unicode U+24BD gets us Ⓗ. (Thanks, Godai!)
Captain Cosmic - 42%
Sky-Scraper - 48%
“You gotta have blue hair."
-Reckless
Thank you!
"See, this is another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart." - Mal
Unicode U+24BD gets us Ⓗ. (Thanks, Godai!)
Quantum mechanical analogies are appropriate for Super Scientific Tachyon!
What we really care about is not the odds of getting *a* successful Experiment for each deck, but the *expectation value* of an Experiment from each deck. This would be a weighted average: the odds of an Experiment succeeding times the "impact factor" of that successful Experiment. So a hero whose deck has abysmal odds of success but contains two one-shots reading "the heroes win instantly" might have a higher expectation value than a hero deck with high odds of success but all cards read "deal 1 target 1 melee damage."
Of course, defining that impact factor...sounds like a good master's thesis. So we'll probably never really get the bottom line here, and we'll have to live with the anecdotal experience that Experiments on Unity can be awesome.
Another factor is whether you have someone on the team that can help you draw from the trash like AA, Tempest or Scholar, or whether you can do it yourself with Instrumental Conjuration or Robot Reclaimation. Then even an 'unsuccessful' Experiment might put a valuable card someplace you can get to it.
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
True and awesome! Now if I could just find a university where that could be MY Masters thesis...
"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett
The raw % are good, but one of the reasons why I almost never use SS Tachyon with another hero is because SST has a bunch of one-shots and bursts, so the chances of playing something are good, plus, even if she doesn't dumping a burst into the trash from the bottom of her deck helps her end game, so it's a win big/win small no matter what. How many other heroes benefit from having cards in their trash consistently?
Legacy seems like a good choice because he's not going to screw himself, or others over. Nightmist is dangerous to herself (and others, with Oblivion), but if she has her relics set up it could be a good panic button.
SST has an obvious combo with Dark Visionary and any other character that lets you look at the bottom of a deck, but I find it's more beneficial for Dark Visionary to stack the villain deck (one play per round instead of one out of three to five), so I generally only do so if I draw a Precognition (IIRC, the one that lets you stack with the top 3 cards of the villain deck) or Wraith is in the game. What other characters would let you stack the bottom of a deck without the option to use it on the villains?
...also, Tachyon is probably the only hero with nonzero expectation value for a *failed* Experiment, because even if the cards go to her trash she charges up her attacks!
Unless the cards that get more powerful with burst cards in the trash are also already in the trash thanks to previous Experiments...
Depending on how far they were down the deck, you weren't going to see them for a long time anyway. However, SST does work better with a hero who can recover trashed cards is helpful for those situations.
Sure, but I don't mind seeing Light Speed Barrage later in the game, that means I would be drawing more valuable early card games and not have my hand crowded with cards that I probably won't use until the moment they can take out the villain. So not seeing it for awhile is just fine by me.
It's definitely good having those cards later on, but my experience playing her is that it's helped Tachyon throw out large nukes on the villain much earlier than she'd been able to do otherwise. I don't have the numbers, but I'd be curious what the average increase is in her LSB damage from using her power on herself every turn.
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