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MigrantP
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It prevents the first damage. The second damage is not the first.


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Developer of Sentinels, Bottom of the 9th, and Spirit Island

Dr. Kaylo Epsilon
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TakeWalker wrote:

Does Cosmic Inventor Writhe's power stack with itself?

I think that if it did, it would be written as "Prevent the first damage that would be dealt to that hero each turn" instead of "Prevent the first damage dealt to that hero each turn".

 

There seems to be an unfortunate equivocation in Sentinels between "damage dealt" (how much damage somethng's trying to inflict) and "damage dealt" (the amount a target's HP are actually reduced by). Sometimes, it's just weird how the damage dealt is different from the damage dealt...

  • Ambuscade dealt 5 damage to Legacy. Thanks to Superhuman Durability, Fortitude, and chosing damage reduction effects in the right order, Legacy was dealt 1 damage.

Sometimes, you have outright contradictions (if you don't distinguish between dealing and dealing)...

  • First thing in a turn, Ambuscade dealt 2 damage to Writhe. Thanks to the Mk II Shadow Projector, Writhe was not dealt damage. The first damage dealt that turn was prevented, so there was 2 damage dealt and also there was no damage dealt.
  • Then, after also hitting a Dynamic Siphon for another Shadow Projection for good measure, Ambuscade again dealt 2 damage to Writhe. This is the second damage dealt to Writhe and also first damage dealt to Writhe

Or, another fun one...

  • First thing in a turn, Ambuscade dealt 2 damage to Writhe. Legacy, Leading from the front and loaded with Fortitude and triple Wounding Buffers, wants to to redirect that damage and make a mess. However, thanks to the Mk II Shadow Projector, the damage dealt is prevented, and as such Write would not be dealt damage, so Legacy can't redirect the damage dealt to a hero by a villian. 

(Apparently, Lead from the Front redirects damage that would be dealt instead of redirecting damage that would be dealt. I get the impression that "would be" is mostly reserved for damage dealt, hence my above suspicions of the wording if it was intended to stack.)

I wish that different words had been used for the different meanings. Perhaps "aimed at" instead of dealt, and "received" instead of dealt. So, the shadow projector would say "Prevent the first damage aimed at that hero each turn", while Lead from the Front would say "Whenever a hero would receive damage". Or, taking MigrantP's reply...

MigrantP, reworded wrote:

It prevents the first damage aimed. The second damage aimed may be the first received, but is not the first aimed.

All that said, I'd much rather have Sentinels as-is than not have Sentinels at all!

 


Let R be the set containing of all sets which do not contain themselves. Is R contained in R?

arenson9
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I tend to use targeted and taken instead of aimed and received, but otherwise agree with you.


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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Just found a really fun one. No idea if this one has been talked about, But figured I'd say something just in case.

Important parts:

Ambuscade vs Luminary&co at Champion Studios

Ambuscade has out two shields, the Car Chase Scene is in play, and Luminary has a fully primed Orbital Death-Laser and two 'Technologically Stable's in hand.

I blast him with my laser, figuring the damage from his shields wouldn't matter since the ODL is distroyed after it's attack anyway, and I can pull it back out with Technologically Stable next turn and charge it up again.

Shields go off and reduce ODL to 1hp, which has CCS destroy it BEFORE it's own destruction+reshuffle trash effect goes off, leaving me with 16+ cards in my trash, and an easily retrievable ODL.

3 turns of a fully charged laser cannon and a car chase results in one crispy Frenchman.

Rabit
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Andy and I had a ridiculous combination come up last night. He was playing base Mr. Fixer with Jack Handle, Grease Monkey Fist, and Bloody Knuckles. I was playing Sky-Scraper. We were playing team format, so Fixer was already wiping folks out left and right, but on my turn I dropped a Compulsion Canister on him, allowing him to wipe the board. He did 24 damage to all targets in two turns. X-D 


"See, this is another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart." - Mal

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arenson9
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Rabit wrote:

Andy and I had a ridiculous combination come up last night. He was playing base Mr. Fixer with Jack Handle, Grease Monkey Fist, and Bloody Knuckles. I was playing Sky-Scraper. We were playing team format, so Fixer was already wiping folks out left and right, but on my turn I dropped a Compulsion Canister on him, allowing him to wipe the board. He did 24 damage to all targets in two turns. X-D 

... but likely through a misunderstanding of the rules. If Fixer targets himself with Jack Handle, Grease Monkey Fist, and Bloody Knuckles, how much damage does he do to all non-hero targets? 4 or 6?

The digital version has Fixer doing 4, but our reading of the cards and even of the Fireside Chats don't make it completely obvious to us why that's the case.


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

Powerhound_2000
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If you have Jack Handle, Grease Monkey Fist, and Bloody Knuckles in play when Compulsion Cannister is played each attack would deal 5 to all non hero targets.  The total from both hits would be a total of 10 irreducible damage to all non hero targets that round and a second round of all this would bring it to a total of 20. Harmony being out would increase it to 24.   If you only got 4 damage total in the video game then you only had Jack Handle in play for Mr Fixer. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
arenson9
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Forget Compulsion Cannister. If Mr. Fixer has Jack Handle, Grease Monkey Fist, and Bloody Knuckles in play and then uses his base power, the digital version has him do four to all non-hero targets.

We were thinking a case could be made that it should be six, if Mr. Fixer originally targeted himself, because the damage he would do to himself without Jack Handle would be six, so he should do six to all non-hero targets. Whether it's four or six seems to hinge on whether or not, like redirection, increases and reductions are refigured after the target of the attempt to deal damage changes, or, like Dual Crowbars, the amount for the new attempt to deal damage is set based on the amount of the previous dealing of damage. Since with Jack Handle there isn't any damage dealt before the target is changed, this seems more like redirection than something akin to Dual Crowbars, but the word 'redirect' isn't actually used in the text of Jack Handle, so we weren't 100% certain how to rule it.


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

Powerhound_2000
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Mr Fixer never hits himself so the additional damage to himself isn’t counted.   Basically look at the base damage being dealt and that is the basis for all hits to non-hero targets.  For each individual hit to a non-hero target you then look at any static or temporary damage boosts to add. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
The Mariner
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This has probably been mentioned before, but HOT HECK can Freedom Five Tachyon beat Advanced Plague Rat.  If she gets Infected right away, it’s game over for lur bitey and scratchy friend, buried underneath a nigh-endless barrage of damage that he buffs up to lethal levels.

Trajector
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This happened to me in a game where Omnitron had Adaptive Plating:

Tempest had in play, in this order, Electrical Storm, Elemental Subwave  Inducer, and Grievous Hailstorm. First he hits Omnitron with the start of turn lightning damage (Omni becomes immune to lightning). He chooses Fire damage for the Inducer, and plays Lightning Slash (Omni becomes immune to fire). The powers can't do damage to Omnitron.

Next turn is Unity. She plays Hasty Augmentation, and lets Tempest use the Hailstorm. The elemental Subwave inducer only changes Tempest's damage type for ONE TURN, so it's cold damage again and does damage to Omnitron!

Dr. Kaylo Epsilon
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Infinitor went infinite on me!

I was doing a quick game against heroic Infinitor, and had all but one of the manifestations under him. The last one was in play, and he was doing his "Play all the one-shots" thing. He was at 1 HP, the last manifestation was at 1 HP, his penultimate one-shot is a "1 damage to everyone!" Whispers of Oblivion, and just for fun I decide to hit Infinitor instead of the manifestation, because self-inflicted major twist. 

So Infinitor flips, dumps all his manifestations in the trash, does the last damage to the remaining manifestation, and plays the top card of his deck. The last one shot. Insanity. Which plays the top card of the (just a sec, shuffling...) deck, a manifestation. Which is destroyed by Infinitor, and since it was a manifestation we repeat Insanity. Which plays the top card of the deck, a manifestation, which is destroyed by Infinitor, and since it was a manifestation we repeat Insanity. Which plays the top card of the deck, a manifestation, which is destroyed by Infinitor, and since it was a manifestation we repeat Insanity. Which plays the top card of the deck, a manifestation, which is destroyed by Infinitor, and since it was a manifestation we repeat Insanity. .... Which plays the top card of the (just a sec, shuffling...) deck, a manifestation, which is destroyed by Infinitor, and since it was a manifestation we repeat Insanity. 

Insanity with a deck/trash containing only manifestations is insane!

 

 


Let R be the set containing of all sets which do not contain themselves. Is R contained in R?

TakeWalker
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This was fun.

Luminary vs. Omnitron with Backlash Generator in play.

Play Triple Cross, selecting Omnitron to deal himself 2 psychic damage.

Omnitron is a non-hero target that just dealt damage to a Device.

Backlash Generator punishes Omnitron for being wigged out by the triple cross. XD (It was something like 4 lightning damage for reasons I don't actually recall...)

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I'm not sure if it's a bug or not but I got a very unexpected interaction during an OblivAeon game today.

 

Obly just turned phase 3 and Voss is in the other battle zone.

Tachyon did her sonic boom (forgot the real name, it's the card that deals 1 damage to all non hero target and prevent them to do damage) and Chrono Ranger did the 119 remaining damages on his turn.

Voss then becomes OblivAeon ... and since 'OblivAeon cannot deal damage' and 'Voos counts as OblivAeon', poor Voss was prevented to do damage when in the same battle zone as Tachyon.

 

Doing a few damages wouldn't have saved Him, but poor guy, apparently he didn't knew that when you stole infinite cosmic power, you steal broken ear-drums as well...

QuirkyDM
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Something I didn't expect when playing Realm of Discord with Haka. Imbued Vitality came out on the same turn as Haka played Ground Pound. When Ground Pound was destroyed at the start of Haka's turn, it counted as Haka destroying a target- so I got to put Ground Pound uner Savage Mana. Not exactly what I was expecting, but it made Savage Mana a little more interesting that turn.

Phantom5613
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Prety sure that one is a bug, since Ground Pound shouldn't be counted as a target. Might want to submit that one.

Powerhound_2000
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Ground Pound was a target as they mentioned due to Imbued Vitality. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
starkenburg_ale...
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I don't think this one has been mentioned, but I'm not digging through 500 posts to find out :P

One "Cheeky Bastard!" play I found in this week's one shot: If Tachyon has an empty deck but full of Burst card and Lightspeed Barrage trash, and La Comodora has 3 copies of Harnessed Anomaly in hand, Tachyon can play another 3 Lightspeed Barrages on the same turn :) Comodora puts Barrage in Tachyon's empty deck, "shuffles", then plays the top card, then Comodora chooses to play another Anomaly to repeat.

~Komori

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Throw in one I've posted in both Dr Medico's and Benchmark's threads, and like the immediately prior post I'm not digging through to find out - Benchmark's Upgraded Memory Unit lets you gain an extra hp when Benchmark is healed.  This, added to Dr Medico's Experimental Medicine/Second Opinion combo, lets Benchmark activate a power from Universal Donor whenever Dr Medico is harmed.  Then Benchmark can use Ally Matrix to let Medico use Healing Pulse, which also deals more damage to Dr Medico, which lets Benchmark use another power, which could be another Ally Matrix or an Auto-Targeting Protocol (one of those five targets could be Doctor Medico...).  Argent Adept loves being around these two, since he can benefit from as many power activations as he can get his hands on, and with Benchmark discarding so much stuff it's pretty nice to be able to stack Syncopated Onslaughts on Benchmark so he can unleash a truly monstrous Inferno Missile Pod.

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Nothing exciting, just an unexpected combination:  With Mad Bomber Blade (hopefully on his flip side), when Imbued Vitality comes into play all of Blade's Ongoings are instantly destroyed since they are now villain targets.

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If Absolute Zero has his Ice Module and is somehow immune to damage (Meteor Storm or Immunization) he can still gain life when ice damage should be inflicted to him ... Even though the damage should be 0 because of his invulnerability.

carnilius
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Hankroyd wrote:

If Absolute Zero has his Ice Module and is somehow immune to damage (Meteor Storm or Immunization) he can still gain life when ice damage should be inflicted to him ... Even though the damage should be 0 because of his invulnerability.

Interesting.  I wonder if that is a change?  Whenever I play Heroic Interception I do not get the option of healing Absolute Zero instead of being immune.

Powerhound_2000
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Yeah that sounds more like a bug.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
origamiswami
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Apparently, Fixed Point prevents Omnitron X's plating cards from returning to your hand.  So if you have the right hand, you can get all three types of plating out on the same turn, and possibly some duplicates.  As long as you never play another plating card and they don't get destroyed by another effect, all of them will stay in play forever, turning Omnitron X into an INDESTRUCTIBLE TANK!  Your components are now safe, Reactive Plating Subroutine will punish anything that gets through the wall, and Defensive Blast deals massive damage, especially with buffs.  I can just imagine Omnitron X noticing The Dreamer, frantically putting on every piece of plating he has, and then running around blasting bad guys for the rest of the battle while everything bounces off him!


Qapla!

McBehrer
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Yeah, Fixed Point shenanigans are great. See also: Mr. Fixer using multiple tools at once, Naturalist getting all 3 Forms out, Tachyon becoming an infinite damage-redirection engine, etc.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

origamiswami
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I didn't think it would affect the platings, though, since they don't get destroyed when a new plating is played; they just return to hand. I'm not sure if it's actually intended behavior or not.


Qapla!

Powerhound_2000
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It is intended behavior.   Indestructible means the card can’t leave play which includes affects that try to return cards to hands.   So with Fixed Point in play Omnitron-X’s platings and Mr Fixer’s Tools remain in play even if you play another Plating or Tool


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
McBehrer
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Unfortunately, this also applies to cards like Into the Stratosphere.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

RandomdudeNo123
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Playing Prime Wardens Tempest in the Maerynian refuge is surprisingly easy, if the Maerynian-Lightning Dome is put into play. PW Tempest's base power forces him to take 3 damage to play a card, up to 3 times. Lightning Dome reduces all lightning damage by 2, except for the Highest HP target, which is usually the villain. Tempest can now play 3 cards for 1 damage each. Add in his personal damage reduction (Otherwordly Resilience/Subwave inducer), and his base power now reads "Play 3 cards".

On the other hand, Tempest can only really hurt the highest HP targest effectively, unless he switchest his subwave inducer to a different setting.

carnilius
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Strange interaction or bug?  Omnitron has Interpolation Beam and EPE.  Bunker has Ammo Drop.  Tempest destroys Omnitron, allowing Bunker to draw a card from Ammo Drop.  Drawing the card triggers Omnitron, who is no longer in play, to hit Bunker with Interpolation Beam?

Powerhound_2000
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My initial guess is a strange interaction similar to how Tome of the Unknowable and Ammo Drop work.   They’re in the process of being destroyed while you draw a card.   But I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a bug.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
TakeWalker
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I found out last night that La Comodora's Shipshape, a card she always wants to have out, allows her to laugh at Progeny's Scion of Blight. Granted, you won't want to have two of those in play, and maybe sometimes Parse or someone will want to discard, but the rest of the time, Comodora can blithely fill her trash with stuff, then ram it all down Progeny's throat with Run Aground. :D Fun!

Dandolo
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TakeWalker wrote:
I found out last night that La Comodora's Shipshape, a card she always wants to have out, allows her to laugh at Progeny's Scion of Blight. Granted, you won't want to have two of those in play, and maybe sometimes Parse or someone will want to discard, but the rest of the time, Comodora can blithely fill her trash with stuff, then ram it all down Progeny's throat with Run Aground. :D Fun!

Speaking of Shipshape, using the second effect when Fixed Point is out is a fun way to get a free top of deck play since the check only looks for the discard, not that a card actually left play and moved to the top of your deck.

origamiswami
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Was fighting the Matriarch with Wraith, Lifeline, Chrono Ranger, and Tachyon.  Matriarch had tons of fowl cards out (of course) and a domain, but Wraith Stun Bolted the domain and CR darted Matriarch.  Lifeline had Vitality battery out and Terminarch's Casing, and played Unleash Energy, killing all of the birds.  The domain did nothing, Matriarch did nothing, but each bird destroyed meant Lifeline could regain 2 HP using Vitality Battery.  So Lifeline killed everything and regained more than a dozen HP in a single turn, with no damage to any heroes!  Not sure if this is an "unexpected" combination, but it felt awesome when it happened.


Qapla!

Hankroyd
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When a card is under another, it IS under another.

Meaning that Completionnist Guise using Sentai Idealist's power will count the shelved hero character cards along the unshelved Concept/Fragment he took from Idealist to see how many damage he does. (Though you can't destroy Character cards to put them into the discard ... too bad, that would have been funny.)

Trajector
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Akash'Thriya and the Sentinels make an amazing team-up!

First, all the Sentinels' healing abilities can funnel into the Primordial Tree, leading to lots of power uses at the start of Akash'Thriya's turn. Even having the tree take 2 damage so Medico can heal it by 3 is a net gain.

Second, all the Seeds are more likely to be the lowest health target than any of the Sentinels, which makes it more feasible to have Medico use M.D. instead of having Mainstay use Block.

Add Sentinel Tactics into the mix, and the Sentinels are often dealing damage + healing the tree at least twice per round.

I've never seen that tree so healthy!

TakeWalker
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You could also use Human Shield to get those power uses free, couldn't you?

McBehrer
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As long as you don't have any damage increases floating around, yeah!


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

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Not truly unexpected if you're paying attention, but was a heckuva lot of fun.

Mr. Fixer was fighting Obllivaeon. He had Dual Crowbars and the Mecha-Knight out.

Dual Crowbars is whenever Mr. Fixer deals damage. The Mecha-Knight hits the target (a Scion) five times, so the crowbars hit a second target  (Oblivaeon) five times with more damage. Add in the buffs and it was a lot of fun.

Missingno
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Fixer + Rewards in general is just really good for OblivAeon, especially the power ones.  It's why putting a cosmic weapon on him is also a fun time, as is using freindly fire/compulsion canister/hitch a ride with him.


I'll put things in here later.

pricyprovinces
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Ra's Excavate is normally a pretty low use card for me but I did find out today that it pairs really well with Akash' Thriya. Ra gets 3 cards and Akash gets to move three seeds from the trash into the deck!


if life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon. - the scholar, stranger in a strange world #9

The Mariner
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Not really unexpected, but Legacy + Luminary make taking down Ambuscade a breeze.  Luminary can set up a Rube Goldberg of Devices for Amby to detonate while Legacy tanks all the heroes from damage (thanks to Next Evolution). I finished a Terralunar Translocator with 8 cards in trash

origamiswami
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Among the many insane interactions that happen in OblivAeon mode, Voidsoul can flip himself several times in a single turn, activating his end-of-turn effect every time he does.  At the end of the scion turn, if he's flipped, he deals some damage and then flips back over.  Then, since it's still the end of the turn, his end-of-turn effect for his front side activates, making a hero target deal every other hero target 2 and 2.  Unfortunately, since I had the objective "Summon the Collosseum" in play, all that damage dealt by a hero target caused that objective to flip, which of course makes Voidsoul flip back over.   Since it's still the end of the scion turn, the whole cycle repeats once again.  It stopped after that for me, but it is definitely possible for it to keep going if another round of damage manages to flip one of the target objectives, like Hellion.

Edit: I realized Voidsoul won't cause damage to villain targets, so he can't cause Hellion to flip.  Other than Summon the Collosseum, I think the only mission he can directly cause to flip is Enraged Terror-Bird.


Qapla!

gossamerica2
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In a random setup, I discovered the fun of Action Hero Stuntman vs Citizen Dawn.  If he has one or more of Dramatic Cliffhanger, L'Embuscade, No Time to Bleed, or Planquez-Vous!, Steal the Scene, or Stylish Armour in play, Devastating Aurora can be much less devastating.  She destroys something that lets him play a card (or use "All My Own Stunts", which lets him play a card).  Behold, In Medias Res cancels the rest of the Aurora!  So satisfying.

In another random setup, I realized that Luminary's Terralunar Translocator (destroy non-character cards) would be really effective against Apostate, who can get really annoying if he gets a lot of relics out.  Though Apostate didn't last long enough for that to be a problem.  I'll have to play him again and neutralize his relics...

arenson9
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That is a sweet way to sidestep Devastating Aurora!


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

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Vs. Voss with an otherwise random setup, I got DW Expat, Golem Unity, Setback, and VG Medico.  I was very glad that I already had Stealth Bot in play when Surprise Shopping Trip came out.  Then Voss dropped a Forced Deployment, and I thought I was going to be in trouble.  But since Voss didn't have any guards in play or the trash, all I had to do was remove Forced Deployment early.  First minion comes back, Shopping Trip pings all the bad guys while Stealth Bot shields the heroes.  Next minion comes back, it happens again.  Third minion comes out, first minion is dead, repeat...  (For a moment, I wondered if I had an infinite loop where the minions would keep coming out of the trash, but you remove them all first, then put them into play.)  When it was done, there were only two minions left, with 1 & 2 HP each, easily taken care of.

gossamerica2
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I knew that Expat could give Voss fits with Hairtrigger Reflexes with some damage boosts, picking off minions as they arrive (or even better, return).  But if Parse has one or both copies of Exploit Vulnerability in play, Maerynean Refuge's Hurricane Shield can do likewise.

arenson9
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gossamerica2 wrote:
Vs. Voss with an otherwise random setup, I got DW Expat, Golem Unity, Setback, and VG Medico.  I was very glad that I already had Stealth Bot in play when Surprise Shopping Trip came out.  Then Voss dropped a Forced Deployment, and I thought I was going to be in trouble.  But since Voss didn't have any guards in play or the trash, all I had to do was remove Forced Deployment early.  First minion comes back, Shopping Trip pings all the bad guys while Stealth Bot shields the heroes.  Next minion comes back, it happens again.  Third minion comes out, first minion is dead, repeat...  (For a moment, I wondered if I had an infinite loop where the minions would keep coming out of the trash, but you remove them all first, then put them into play.)  When it was done, there were only two minions left, with 1 & 2 HP each, easily taken care of.

Nice!


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FrivYeti
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Well, I learned a new one today. The Naturalist's Indomitable Force is the only hero cadd I know of that redirects damage by source, not target. He ranks all damage by villain targets, no matte who they're targeting. 

Which means that if he has it out and then a couple of AkashBhuta limbs get killed, she will punch the Naturalist for 20 damage instead of herself...

TakeWalker
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Oh, that's... interesting. o.O And doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And isn't actually how the card is written.

I would consider reporting that as a bug, Akash'Bhuta isn't a hero target.

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