Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"
Hey guys. Arathorns updates have slowed, I can only assume RL is taking its toll.
If anyone would like to work with the raw data and put together some sort of Statistics display, send me a PM and I'll get you access to it to do with as you wish! Some sort of form like Arathorns would be great - I simply don't have the knowledge or the time to do such a thing.
Let me know if you can help! Data is still being collected, and when Villians is released I will update the input form for it. New results graphs would be really needed then!
I know Arathorn hasn't had a chance to run the stats with the new batch of heroes so far, so I ran my ratty old Perl script on them just a few minutes ago to see how things are shaping up. (Standard small sample size warnings apply.)
- Desperate Naturalist looks very strong (15 wins in 16 games), as does Santa Guise (10 wins in 12 games). Scholar of the Infinite isn't looking half bad himself, either (34 wins in 43 games).
- Chokepoint is winless in 13 games recorded so far. Almost all of those games were considered a 1 or a 2 on a difficulty scale of 1-5 (5 = hardest). Still early, but she's looking weaker than Deadline.
For the other heroes and villains (and the environments), there's still not a lot of data to work with yet.
As for the raw stats, it looks like there are a few Scholar entries that were actually Scholar of the Infinite (from the comments), plus a few "Infitinte" typoes still in there. Not a big deal, but it probably wouldn't hurt to edit those in by hand where they show up.
Thanks NineEdgeFirst for doing that! I corrected the mistake on the forums that lead to the Scholar having the typo, and the 'Find and Replace' is still processing... there are LOTS Of entries! Lol.
I would love if you could post the results of your script up for all to see for everything, but I don't know how expansive that is!
Sooo.,... the new version of Google Sheets that we've been in for about a year or so, has really upped their game on processing complex formulas with large amounts of data. I got the basic formulas put back into the sheets, so I have some basic data again - nothing as complex or cool as Arathorns, but given a few more weekends I might be able to get some updated stats again.
I would love if you could post the results of your script up for all to see for everything, but I don't know how expansive that is!
It's not that expansive, but the output is pretty messy since I'd only ever intended to use it for myself. Let me see if I can get it cleaned up in the next day or two, and then find someplace to upload it.
As I said, it's pretty raw. If there's any interest (and if Arathorn doesn't have time to do a stats update soon), I can clean it up a bit. (If anybody's really feeling brave, I can also post the link to the Perl script I'm using.)
Chokepoint is still winless in 19 games. Also, Desperate Naturalist has 20 wins to 1 single loss. (The single loss was against Cosmic Omnitron, in a 4-player game with Captain Cosmic and Bunker as teammates. Even with Tempest as your fourth that's a rough match.)
Also looks like the Celestial Tribunal may be the new easiest environment (2 losses, 14 wins), though that's not much data, and the Adamant Sentinels are also at one loss out of 16 games. Termi-Nation Unity is at one loss out of 9 games, not much data there but she could be the most successful version of Unity yet.
Looking forward to Vengeance/Villains villains data!
I have to start addng data to this, cause some of these numbers seem way off. Out of six playthroughs with Kaargra I have never lost, out of 3 playthroughs with Court of Blood I've lost twice. (It's a crazy hostile enviro.)
With a lot of the moving pieces unlocked with Kaargra and her ability to quickly build up her army of gladiators I'm not surprised she is that high. I'm sure having her and the other Wrath of the Cosmos villains in the app will probably have her go down at least a little bit.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Would it be possible to add Challenge Mode (Y/N) as an additional question? It's an official GtG supplement, after all. My group is close to having beaten all villains on Advanced and we'll be cycling through on Challenge next.
The reason I never put it in in the past was because Challenge modes are outside the normal rules - they are official yes, but freely addmited by >G that they aren't in anyway even possibly balanced. The main goal of the Statistics project was to evaulate heroes vrs each other, in comparison to various villains and such. Which is why I've tried to make it clear to keep things like House Ruled Gloomweaver out and such. Unbalanced for fun challenges may not be the best way to compile that information
That being said, it wouldn't be impossible to exclude the challenge mode ones from the none challenge modes (after all, already keep advanced seperate) so its not really a big deal to put it in there.
Yeah, I don't see how Challenge Mode is that different from Advanced when it comes to balance. Some villains benefit massively from their Advanced ability, and some aren't helped in any significant way at all. And frankly, >G frequently dropped the ball when it came to estimating villain difficulty levels in the first place.
I sent you a PM, but I'd like to get read access to the data. Since Arathorn seems busy these days, I should be able to put something together to pull the data daily or weekly using cron and the Google Sheets API, and automatically create and update statistical reports with some R scripts. Take the human element out of the equation.
The reason I never put it in in the past was because Challenge modes are outside the normal rules - they are official yes, but freely addmited by >G that they aren't in anyway even possibly balanced.
The rulebook also states that Advanced mode isn't balanced.
The reason I never put it in in the past was because Challenge modes are outside the normal rules - they are official yes, but freely addmited by >G that they aren't in anyway even possibly balanced.
The rulebook also states that Advanced mode isn't balanced.
Separate pages for basic rankings and full analyses. The full thing has a lot of data loaded into tables that can be filtered and sorted, so it take a little while to load on a desktop, and a very long time to load (and may render incorrectly) on a phone or tablet.
Most of the same data as on Arathorn's page. I left out some of the analyses that didn't produce interesting results, especially any that would require me to add even more visualization libraries. Also, for greatest flexibility, it contains no metadata that isn't in the source, e.g. what expansion a hero/villain/environment comes from.
A few extra comparisons, such as win rates of combinations of two heroes, and win rate by team size and hero's position in the team.
Significance testing on detailed pages by hero. This helps sort out variance due to randomness and small sample sizes.
This leads into one big weakness: since it's all automated, there's no element of human quality control. Unlike Matthew Gray's naive Bayes model (which mine does something to using logistic regression--very different math, but usually similar results), it doesn't filter out anything by "not enough data." It will always try with whatever it has. Significance testing helps with some of that, but it's no substitute for common-sense sanity checks. This also means that some data, like interactions, are highly subject to interpretation.
My to-do list currently includes:
A contributor view page, which will allow people to see who's contributed how many games to the project, how many times they've used each hero, villain, and environment, and a few more details. (It will not function as a leaderboard, since that could encourage people to do other than just play the game as normal and submit honest data.)
A difficulty calculator using the logistic regression data. This should be the most accurate difficulty estimator available to date.
So we were wondering... Would you be interested in adding summary data from the video game to the statistics project? There are over 800,000 finished game sessions (and counting) for which we can provide the basic setup & result. I'm not sure Google Sheets could handle that, but we could send some sample data and see how it goes.
I don't think it would integrate well with the Google Sheet, but I'd be more than happy to add it to my summary statistics. As long as you have it in some kind of format I can parse easily, like JSON, I can work with it. Heroes, Villain(s), Environment, Advanced, and won/lost are pretty much all I look at right now, but date would be good too, so I can make sure any data we have from the Google Form doesn't overlap it. At some point I may add more involved data--alternate win/loss conditions, villain flips, hero incapacitation--but I'm not there yet and it's not critical.
So we were wondering... Would you be interested in adding summary data from the video game to the statistics project? There are over 800,000 finished game sessions (and counting) for which we can provide the basic setup & result. I'm not sure Google Sheets could handle that, but we could send some sample data and see how it goes.
How many unfinished games do you have? The reason I ask is that I expect that games that are going poorly are more likely to be abandoned than games that are going well, and that could skew the statistics a bit. But if the number of abandoned games is small (compared to the 800,000 total games) then it won't be a noticeable effect.
Also, do you have any idea how many of those games are weekly one-shot games? That could also affect the numbers if they make up a large quanity of the games played. Also, I'm kind of curious about how much of game activity is Weekly One-shot activity.
"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"
If that's every game ever played on the video game version ever, I can simply eliminate all the Google entries played on the video game (unless I'm looking at data that Handelabra doesn't log). Otherwise, I can probably filter by date.
Either way, the real challenge will be improving efficiency. Right now my tool takes about 3 minutes a day to run, and that's with 17,000 games. I'll have to do things a very different way if that number gets multiplied by 40.
If we need to, we could probably change the Google form to store data in the same manner that the Handel abrasive team store their Data. At least I'm betting we could, then (someone other than me) could write a script to convert the old data.
All that data would be awesome, but the points above of unfinished games being stopped when they are being lost is an important part. If the data says it's about 2/3rds win rate tho, that would line up...
I don't think it would integrate well with the Google Sheet, but I'd be more than happy to add it to my summary statistics. As long as you have it in some kind of format I can parse easily, like JSON, I can work with it. Heroes, Villain(s), Environment, Advanced, and won/lost are pretty much all I look at right now, but date would be good too, so I can make sure any data we have from the Google Form doesn't overlap it. At some point I may add more involved data--alternate win/loss conditions, villain flips, hero incapacitation--but I'm not there yet and it's not critical.
We can provide JSON from analytics events. You'll get heroes, villain, environment, advanced, won/lost, and "result kind" (alternate win/loss conditions). I'll get some samples together for you to have a look at the format.
Quote:
How many unfinished games do you have? The reason I ask is that I expect that games that are going poorly are more likely to be abandoned than games that are going well, and that could skew the statistics a bit. But if the number of abandoned games is small (compared to the 800,000 total games) then it won't be a noticeable effect.
It's not possible to get that exactly, because there's no way to determine the difference between accidentally abandoning a game or intentionally doing so in many cases. We do have some data that can help get an idea though. Here are some quick numbers for iOS in the last month:
Game started: 29,412 times
Continue game: 9,175 times
Game restarted: 4,580 times
Game finished: 18,763 times
So from that we know for sure that at least 4,580 games were intentionally abandoned. The real number is somewhere between that and 10,649.
Quote:
Also, do you have any idea how many of those games are weekly one-shot games? That could also affect the numbers if they make up a large quanity of the games played. Also, I'm kind of curious about how much of game activity is Weekly One-shot activity.
In the same time period/platform above, 4,080 local weekly one-shot games were started. It's fairly easy to see the weekly one-shots in the results because the games with those setups are the most common, after the tutorial game.
Quote:
Also, is that data from Handelabra's own test games, or from the players? Because you'll get some duplicates for sure if it's the latter...
From the players. How much spare time do you think we have =)
Captain Cosmic: Requital (the "Captain Infinitor" variant) isn't in the hero selection dropdown. Looks like it was missed in the update that added the other OblivAeon Kickstarter/5th Anniversary Foil Hero variants.
I think what I'll have to do is run a completely separate report from Handelabra's data. With only 63% of games completed at all, and no way of knowing whether a particular abandoned game was abandoned because the player anticipated losing or for some other reason, that's a very different set of assumptions. Clearly the baseline win rates will be drastically different, and I anticipate that heroes that require longer buildup times will have much lower win rates.
Anyway, you can PM me with details about how you'd like to get the data available for analysis.
Edit: Contributor statistics have been added! Keep track of what heroes, villains, and environments you've played with, and how well you've done with each, as well as see who's contributed how much so far!
Thats a great idea MindWanderer - then we don't have to worry about duplicates between the two as well.
We can run the statistics on our own collected data (which has more information too, like position of the hero, ect - and that won't get diluted out with 10k games without that data, as a possible (maybe not true) example) and seperately on theirs. Plus, as MindWanderer already said he's going to be adding a 'username lookup' function to his stat page, that can still have players put their video game data into the form so they can track their own statistics.
Handelabra (handle abrasive autospell correction team) - is this something Mind Wanderer can put up on your own site? Is that something you guys are interested in? I have no horse in that race, just a curious (and excited!) bystander.
Ever since I started this project, and the Video Game was released, I wanted to see the statistics done for the video games data. I had HOPED that you guys had been collecting the data, and I am SO glad that you were. This has me so super excited I'm beside myself.
MigrantP - Thank you so much for having this data, having the forsight to capture it, and offering it up
MindWanderer - an even BIGGER thanks for having the ability, the patience, the time, and the desire to automate the analysis of the data, so that we can all see it in (practically) real time. Thank you so very much!
Captain Cosmic: Requital (the "Captain Infinitor" variant) isn't in the hero selection dropdown. Looks like it was missed in the update that added the other OblivAeon Kickstarter/5th Anniversary Foil Hero variants.
Thanks for catching that. He's in now! (at the bottom. I've been debating if I should reorganize them by team? by alphatbetical? By hero? Not sure yet, still debating - i only want to do it once because reorganizing them is a pain in google forms, and if I make a new question it messes up the results sheet)
The Hero list has been bothering me for a while. There are a few problems
1) I was not smart enough to start every hero with the hero name. This means the list is ugly looking
2) This is a problem because what is in the list is what is put into the results spreedsheet. So you can see Tempest; Sacrifice has a ; instead of a : - it got that way on 3 of the 5 fields, wasn't on the other two, and we ended up with Tempest; Sacrifice and Tempest: Sacrifice in the results when arathorn started doing them.
3) The spreedsheet is now HUGE. i could run a find and replace on all the data to make it cleaner.... I have no idea how long that would take. Might be a weekend project to do... might crash the sheet.
4) What this means is that organizing that hero list is ... difficult. Its difficult already because the only way to do it, and it has to be done for each of the 4 questions, is to click and drag them where they need to go... but the list is so long it spans multiple screens... and the google sheets doesn't scroll with the mouse holding an item.... so you have to do multiple moves for each one. Which is why F5 and Xtreme are at the bottom together, because I was like F'it.
5) Of course... the list is organized by expansion, then by hero... which is confusing.... so... ugh.
I have a few options.
1) Reorganize the lists in true alphabetical
this means things like Best of Times Chrono Ranger comes before Chrono Ranger, and all the 'The Hero' are together.
2) Organize Semi Alphabetical
- Like Argent Adept, Kvothe Six String, Prime Warden Adept, XTREME Prime Adept, Absolute Zero, Absolute Zero Wrath, Termination Zero... .ect
2b) Semi Alphabetical - but seperate out the teams - put the teams all together in order at the end. (so it would look like the above, but also like the XTREME and Freedom Five are now in the lists)
3) Rename and clean up, and do a find and replace on the 18000 entries.... i'm not even sure if that is possible...... And if I do, it's a weekend project.
I'm asking for peoples opinions. I'm dreading, but partial to option 3. ... because I like things clean.
Option 3 isn't as bad as you think--I actually took the liberty of correcting some old inconsistencies (Young and Youngest Legacy, Vengeful Blade and Vengeful Nation Blade, and Mister "FIxer"). As long as every entity has the same name throughout the dataset, my tool will work correctly with no changes from me.
Four suggestions:
1) If we ever wanted to merge the two datasets, it would work best if the Google names matched the Handelabra ones.
2) It would be handy if the Vengeance villains had different names than their solo versions, the way Vengeful Blade does now. Right now I have to do some juggling so they don't overlap.
3) Kvothe needs to be labeled, if not named, in such a way that it's clear that he's the same entity as Dark Conductor.
4) Similarly, some of the names don't clearly match the cards (like Desperate Naturalist). You should know who's who by just looking at the card, with no background knowledge.
Edit: Also, do bear in mind that we have 11 new heroes with a variant each coming out in the near future. If it's that much work to reorder them, you might want to get it all done at one time.
Keep in mind these aren't the full statistics we plan to do if/when we can. Our ideal statistics server would record everything that happens in each game, so you could find out things like "in which environment is Enduring Intercession played the most" or "which hero does the most damage to Progeny" etc.
The basic data we'll be providing includes hero order.
If you're looking to update the hero/variant names - all the official names are in Sentinels Sidekick.
There's another option for you - using a database instead of a spreadsheet. It's not quite as straightforward as using Google docs though.
If I had the ability to do a database, and a form that entered into it, I would xD. Maybe thats something I'll teach myself in the future.
Good point on matching names to the Handelabra data, I'll do that. And I ran a quick F and Replace to test it on a copy of the data last night, changing Tempest; Freedom to Tempest: Freedom Six (460ish entries) only took a few seconds. So Shouldn't be too bad.
And yeah, definitely, I'll be adding the new hero names to it when I do it as well, so I don't have to mess with that later.
If I had the ability to do a database, and a form that entered into it, I would xD. Maybe thats something I'll teach myself in the future.
I could do that, but Google Forms/Docs has the advantage of maximum persistence and maintainability. The data has essentially zero chance of being lost, and lynkfox always has the option of adding another administrator to work on it if it starts being something he can't do anymore for some reason. Plus, although Google's API documentation is absolutely horrible, once you figure it out, it's easy to get the data out to anyone who wants to use it.
MigrantP wrote:
Our data doesn't have display names, it uses identifiers like GrandWarlordVoss or RaHorusOfTwoHorizons.
Hm, that makes integration slightly more difficult. I'd have to manually create a lookup table to translate the names into their official forms. Not too onerous, though, especially if I have to add new data manually anyway.
That being the case, then, ill organize the statistics list differently: since google forms cant do tabbed lists in the same question, having it with the same names as in thr Sidekick wouldnt look good.
Probably next weekend ill work on this. Maybe this, but the wife and i have a lot of fall plans this weekend... apple farm... my first haunted house in over a decade....
That would be the final list, in the way I feel like it should look. Easier to find whomever you are looking for, at least I think so.
If people agree, I'll make the changes as necessary. If people could also look for any spelling errors, or other wise (Don't need any more ; instead of : ! xD)
I'm still of the opinion that the names should reflect what's on the cards, since the "official" names require the app or finding then online somewhere. The main reason to go "official" is moot, since Handelabra's data doesn't use them either.
Welcome to the forums!
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"
Hey guys. Arathorns updates have slowed, I can only assume RL is taking its toll.
If anyone would like to work with the raw data and put together some sort of Statistics display, send me a PM and I'll get you access to it to do with as you wish! Some sort of form like Arathorns would be great - I simply don't have the knowledge or the time to do such a thing.
Let me know if you can help! Data is still being collected, and when Villians is released I will update the input form for it. New results graphs would be really needed then!
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
When will the Google Form be updated with the Holiday Promos? (And VotM stuff?)
Just got the VotM Stuff in. Forgot the Holiday Promos and the VoTM Promos, so I'm off to do that right now!
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Awesome, thanks! Just entered the first game with the Holiday Promos.
I know Arathorn hasn't had a chance to run the stats with the new batch of heroes so far, so I ran my ratty old Perl script on them just a few minutes ago to see how things are shaping up. (Standard small sample size warnings apply.)
- Desperate Naturalist looks very strong (15 wins in 16 games), as does Santa Guise (10 wins in 12 games). Scholar of the Infinite isn't looking half bad himself, either (34 wins in 43 games).
- Chokepoint is winless in 13 games recorded so far. Almost all of those games were considered a 1 or a 2 on a difficulty scale of 1-5 (5 = hardest). Still early, but she's looking weaker than Deadline.
For the other heroes and villains (and the environments), there's still not a lot of data to work with yet.
As for the raw stats, it looks like there are a few Scholar entries that were actually Scholar of the Infinite (from the comments), plus a few "Infitinte" typoes still in there. Not a big deal, but it probably wouldn't hurt to edit those in by hand where they show up.
Thanks NineEdgeFirst for doing that! I corrected the mistake on the forums that lead to the Scholar having the typo, and the 'Find and Replace' is still processing... there are LOTS Of entries! Lol.
I would love if you could post the results of your script up for all to see for everything, but I don't know how expansive that is!
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Sooo.,... the new version of Google Sheets that we've been in for about a year or so, has really upped their game on processing complex formulas with large amounts of data. I got the basic formulas put back into the sheets, so I have some basic data again - nothing as complex or cool as Arathorns, but given a few more weekends I might be able to get some updated stats again.
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
It's not that expansive, but the output is pretty messy since I'd only ever intended to use it for myself. Let me see if I can get it cleaned up in the next day or two, and then find someplace to upload it.
I threw the output up on Google Drive:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vKznSy712fUcpv1ctvlMzx50oYqenymAb9rHcYhj1OQ
As I said, it's pretty raw. If there's any interest (and if Arathorn doesn't have time to do a stats update soon), I can clean it up a bit. (If anybody's really feeling brave, I can also post the link to the Perl script I'm using.)
Chokepoint is still winless in 19 games. Also, Desperate Naturalist has 20 wins to 1 single loss. (The single loss was against Cosmic Omnitron, in a 4-player game with Captain Cosmic and Bunker as teammates. Even with Tempest as your fourth that's a rough match.)
Also looks like the Celestial Tribunal may be the new easiest environment (2 losses, 14 wins), though that's not much data, and the Adamant Sentinels are also at one loss out of 16 games. Termi-Nation Unity is at one loss out of 9 games, not much data there but she could be the most successful version of Unity yet.
Looking forward to Vengeance/Villains villains data!
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
i didnt post when you first put that up, but i love that script. That is awesome stuff, great work!
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
I have to start addng data to this, cause some of these numbers seem way off. Out of six playthroughs with Kaargra I have never lost, out of 3 playthroughs with Court of Blood I've lost twice. (It's a crazy hostile enviro.)
Ah well, just means it's time to SCIENCE!
With a lot of the moving pieces unlocked with Kaargra and her ability to quickly build up her army of gladiators I'm not surprised she is that high. I'm sure having her and the other Wrath of the Cosmos villains in the app will probably have her go down at least a little bit.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I know you're working on the new wiki but could the new OblivAeon variants for current heroes be added since they are in people's hands at this point?
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Yes. tomorrow night probably :)
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Okay
Completionist Guise
Ra: setting Sun
Parse: Fugue State
Visionary: Unleashed
Sky-Scraper: Extremist
Freedom Five: Legacy
Freedom Five: Absolute Zero
Freedom Five: Bunker
Freedom Five: Tachyon
Freedom Five: Wraith
XTREME Prime Wardens: Argent Adept
XTREME Prime Wardens: Haka
XTREME Prime Wardens: Tempest
XTREME Prime Wardens: Fanatic
XTREME Prime Wardens: Captain Cosmic
have all been added to the form. Whew. Getting long in there.
If you notice any spelling discrepencies, please point them out to me ASAP. Thanks!
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Would it be possible to add Challenge Mode (Y/N) as an additional question? It's an official GtG supplement, after all. My group is close to having beaten all villains on Advanced and we'll be cycling through on Challenge next.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
It is certainly possible.
The reason I never put it in in the past was because Challenge modes are outside the normal rules - they are official yes, but freely addmited by >G that they aren't in anyway even possibly balanced. The main goal of the Statistics project was to evaulate heroes vrs each other, in comparison to various villains and such. Which is why I've tried to make it clear to keep things like House Ruled Gloomweaver out and such. Unbalanced for fun challenges may not be the best way to compile that information
That being said, it wouldn't be impossible to exclude the challenge mode ones from the none challenge modes (after all, already keep advanced seperate) so its not really a big deal to put it in there.
Eh. F' it. I'll add it.
xD
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Yeah, I don't see how Challenge Mode is that different from Advanced when it comes to balance. Some villains benefit massively from their Advanced ability, and some aren't helped in any significant way at all. And frankly, >G frequently dropped the ball when it came to estimating villain difficulty levels in the first place.
I sent you a PM, but I'd like to get read access to the data. Since Arathorn seems busy these days, I should be able to put something together to pull the data daily or weekly using cron and the Google Sheets API, and automatically create and update statistical reports with some R scripts. Take the human element out of the equation.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
The rulebook also states that Advanced mode isn't balanced.
fair point
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
All right, version 1.0 of my own stats tool is up:
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/
Features include:
My to-do list currently includes:
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
Sooo awesome!
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Hmmm... are we still having the edit issue? I want to add this link to the first post
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
So we were wondering... Would you be interested in adding summary data from the video game to the statistics project? There are over 800,000 finished game sessions (and counting) for which we can provide the basic setup & result. I'm not sure Google Sheets could handle that, but we could send some sample data and see how it goes.
Lead Bit Flipper, Handelabra Games
Developer of Sentinels, Bottom of the 9th, and Spirit Island
I don't think it would integrate well with the Google Sheet, but I'd be more than happy to add it to my summary statistics. As long as you have it in some kind of format I can parse easily, like JSON, I can work with it. Heroes, Villain(s), Environment, Advanced, and won/lost are pretty much all I look at right now, but date would be good too, so I can make sure any data we have from the Google Form doesn't overlap it. At some point I may add more involved data--alternate win/loss conditions, villain flips, hero incapacitation--but I'm not there yet and it's not critical.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
Also, do you have any idea how many of those games are weekly one-shot games? That could also affect the numbers if they make up a large quanity of the games played. Also, I'm kind of curious about how much of game activity is Weekly One-shot activity.
"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"
- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
...Holy crap.
Also, is that data from Handelabra's own test games, or from the players? Because you'll get some duplicates for sure if it's the latter...
If that's every game ever played on the video game version ever, I can simply eliminate all the Google entries played on the video game (unless I'm looking at data that Handelabra doesn't log). Otherwise, I can probably filter by date.
Either way, the real challenge will be improving efficiency. Right now my tool takes about 3 minutes a day to run, and that's with 17,000 games. I'll have to do things a very different way if that number gets multiplied by 40.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
Wowowowowo
If we need to, we could probably change the Google form to store data in the same manner that the Handel abrasive team store their Data. At least I'm betting we could, then (someone other than me) could write a script to convert the old data.
All that data would be awesome, but the points above of unfinished games being stopped when they are being lost is an important part. If the data says it's about 2/3rds win rate tho, that would line up...
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
We can provide JSON from analytics events. You'll get heroes, villain, environment, advanced, won/lost, and "result kind" (alternate win/loss conditions). I'll get some samples together for you to have a look at the format.
It's not possible to get that exactly, because there's no way to determine the difference between accidentally abandoning a game or intentionally doing so in many cases. We do have some data that can help get an idea though. Here are some quick numbers for iOS in the last month:
Game started: 29,412 times
Continue game: 9,175 times
Game restarted: 4,580 times
Game finished: 18,763 times
So from that we know for sure that at least 4,580 games were intentionally abandoned. The real number is somewhere between that and 10,649.
In the same time period/platform above, 4,080 local weekly one-shot games were started. It's fairly easy to see the weekly one-shots in the results because the games with those setups are the most common, after the tutorial game.
From the players. How much spare time do you think we have =)
Lead Bit Flipper, Handelabra Games
Developer of Sentinels, Bottom of the 9th, and Spirit Island
Captain Cosmic: Requital (the "Captain Infinitor" variant) isn't in the hero selection dropdown. Looks like it was missed in the update that added the other OblivAeon Kickstarter/5th Anniversary Foil Hero variants.
I am only referring to them as the "Handel abrasive team" from now on.
Wow, wouldn't it be fun to put some of those interactive data analytics widgets like fivethirtyeight has on Handelabra's site...
I think what I'll have to do is run a completely separate report from Handelabra's data. With only 63% of games completed at all, and no way of knowing whether a particular abandoned game was abandoned because the player anticipated losing or for some other reason, that's a very different set of assumptions. Clearly the baseline win rates will be drastically different, and I anticipate that heroes that require longer buildup times will have much lower win rates.
Anyway, you can PM me with details about how you'd like to get the data available for analysis.
Edit: Contributor statistics have been added! Keep track of what heroes, villains, and environments you've played with, and how well you've done with each, as well as see who's contributed how much so far!
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
Thats a great idea MindWanderer - then we don't have to worry about duplicates between the two as well.
We can run the statistics on our own collected data (which has more information too, like position of the hero, ect - and that won't get diluted out with 10k games without that data, as a possible (maybe not true) example) and seperately on theirs. Plus, as MindWanderer already said he's going to be adding a 'username lookup' function to his stat page, that can still have players put their video game data into the form so they can track their own statistics.
Handelabra (handle abrasive autospell correction team) - is this something Mind Wanderer can put up on your own site? Is that something you guys are interested in? I have no horse in that race, just a curious (and excited!) bystander.
Ever since I started this project, and the Video Game was released, I wanted to see the statistics done for the video games data. I had HOPED that you guys had been collecting the data, and I am SO glad that you were. This has me so super excited I'm beside myself.
MigrantP - Thank you so much for having this data, having the forsight to capture it, and offering it up
MindWanderer - an even BIGGER thanks for having the ability, the patience, the time, and the desire to automate the analysis of the data, so that we can all see it in (practically) real time. Thank you so very much!
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Thanks for catching that. He's in now! (at the bottom. I've been debating if I should reorganize them by team? by alphatbetical? By hero? Not sure yet, still debating - i only want to do it once because reorganizing them is a pain in google forms, and if I make a new question it messes up the results sheet)
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
OKay.
The Hero list has been bothering me for a while. There are a few problems
1) I was not smart enough to start every hero with the hero name. This means the list is ugly looking
2) This is a problem because what is in the list is what is put into the results spreedsheet. So you can see Tempest; Sacrifice has a ; instead of a : - it got that way on 3 of the 5 fields, wasn't on the other two, and we ended up with Tempest; Sacrifice and Tempest: Sacrifice in the results when arathorn started doing them.
3) The spreedsheet is now HUGE. i could run a find and replace on all the data to make it cleaner.... I have no idea how long that would take. Might be a weekend project to do... might crash the sheet.
4) What this means is that organizing that hero list is ... difficult. Its difficult already because the only way to do it, and it has to be done for each of the 4 questions, is to click and drag them where they need to go... but the list is so long it spans multiple screens... and the google sheets doesn't scroll with the mouse holding an item.... so you have to do multiple moves for each one. Which is why F5 and Xtreme are at the bottom together, because I was like F'it.
5) Of course... the list is organized by expansion, then by hero... which is confusing.... so... ugh.
I have a few options.
1) Reorganize the lists in true alphabetical
this means things like Best of Times Chrono Ranger comes before Chrono Ranger, and all the 'The Hero' are together.
2) Organize Semi Alphabetical
- Like Argent Adept, Kvothe Six String, Prime Warden Adept, XTREME Prime Adept, Absolute Zero, Absolute Zero Wrath, Termination Zero... .ect
2b) Semi Alphabetical - but seperate out the teams - put the teams all together in order at the end. (so it would look like the above, but also like the XTREME and Freedom Five are now in the lists)
3) Rename and clean up, and do a find and replace on the 18000 entries.... i'm not even sure if that is possible...... And if I do, it's a weekend project.
I'm asking for peoples opinions. I'm dreading, but partial to option 3. ... because I like things clean.
What are thoughts?
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Additional Question: MindWanderer - will doing option 3 mess up your results page?
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
I'd suggest alphabetical by base hero name, then variants in whatever order you want to do.
Option 3 isn't as bad as you think--I actually took the liberty of correcting some old inconsistencies (Young and Youngest Legacy, Vengeful Blade and Vengeful Nation Blade, and Mister "FIxer"). As long as every entity has the same name throughout the dataset, my tool will work correctly with no changes from me.
Four suggestions:
1) If we ever wanted to merge the two datasets, it would work best if the Google names matched the Handelabra ones.
2) It would be handy if the Vengeance villains had different names than their solo versions, the way Vengeful Blade does now. Right now I have to do some juggling so they don't overlap.
3) Kvothe needs to be labeled, if not named, in such a way that it's clear that he's the same entity as Dark Conductor.
4) Similarly, some of the names don't clearly match the cards (like Desperate Naturalist). You should know who's who by just looking at the card, with no background knowledge.
Edit: Also, do bear in mind that we have 11 new heroes with a variant each coming out in the near future. If it's that much work to reorder them, you might want to get it all done at one time.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
Keep in mind these aren't the full statistics we plan to do if/when we can. Our ideal statistics server would record everything that happens in each game, so you could find out things like "in which environment is Enduring Intercession played the most" or "which hero does the most damage to Progeny" etc.
The basic data we'll be providing includes hero order.
If you're looking to update the hero/variant names - all the official names are in Sentinels Sidekick.
There's another option for you - using a database instead of a spreadsheet. It's not quite as straightforward as using Google docs though.
Lead Bit Flipper, Handelabra Games
Developer of Sentinels, Bottom of the 9th, and Spirit Island
If I had the ability to do a database, and a form that entered into it, I would xD. Maybe thats something I'll teach myself in the future.
Good point on matching names to the Handelabra data, I'll do that. And I ran a quick F and Replace to test it on a copy of the data last night, changing Tempest; Freedom to Tempest: Freedom Six (460ish entries) only took a few seconds. So Shouldn't be too bad.
And yeah, definitely, I'll be adding the new hero names to it when I do it as well, so I don't have to mess with that later.
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Our data doesn't have display names, it uses identifiers like GrandWarlordVoss or RaHorusOfTwoHorizons.
Lead Bit Flipper, Handelabra Games
Developer of Sentinels, Bottom of the 9th, and Spirit Island
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
That being the case, then, ill organize the statistics list differently: since google forms cant do tabbed lists in the same question, having it with the same names as in thr Sidekick wouldnt look good.
Probably next weekend ill work on this. Maybe this, but the wife and i have a lot of fall plans this weekend... apple farm... my first haunted house in over a decade....
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Anyone paying attention:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kqD_zlsapFcpb-QTjN6kQCjkwJZ17k93F-RURxt9dUQ/edit?usp=sharing
That would be the final list, in the way I feel like it should look. Easier to find whomever you are looking for, at least I think so.
If people agree, I'll make the changes as necessary. If people could also look for any spelling errors, or other wise (Don't need any more ; instead of : ! xD)
Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki
http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!
PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!
Yes, this looks good. Thoughts as I read through it:
The female Luminary variant is known as Heroic Luminary, if I'm not mistaken.
Do you really need the color in "Scholar of the Infinite"? (Also, I approve of taking out the "The". But not for the Sentinels?)
I'm still of the opinion that the names should reflect what's on the cards, since the "official" names require the app or finding then online somewhere. The main reason to go "official" is moot, since Handelabra's data doesn't use them either.
Sentinels Statistics Project -- Statistics updated daily!
Submit your games here!
Pages