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Sentinels Statistics Project

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Arathorn
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Yeah, blank spaces are "no data". Glad you're enjoying it, PePe. Any feedback or thoughts on improvements to it?


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

PePe QuiCoSE
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The one thing I can think of it's adding a way to match Hero/Villain/fun factor (or is it how the game felt?). Maybe environment/Villain too. Maybe it's too subjective to be useful.

lynkfox
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Pretty awesome man.

 

Are you using the Report or the Raw Data that I throw down into the Dropbox folder? I ask cause i notice you have one 2 hero game - there are actually like 30-40 2 hero games entered, just that the data for them is on a seperate page. If you have one then there is one i missed pulling out... XD


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

Arathorn
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lynkvox, I'm using the data from the google doc. I wasn't aware of the dropbox one. I, sadly, haven't even read all the posts in this thread. Can you point me to that location again, please? (Though I will again.)

 

PePe, are you looking for something like http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/Sentinels1/DifficultyViews?:embe... ? That should also be available as a tab from what I linked before.

 

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

lynkfox
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if you're using the googledoc, keep doing so. The drop box lags a month behind, as I only update it when i update the report.

 

But if you want the raw data as an excell file to be easier to work with, you can get them at the dropbox here:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9t6pyl7zb76wony/ynMJKqGZWP


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

lynkfox
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i also linked that doc into the top post of this thread (and finally put in a link to the naive bayes score and the android app for it as well, thanks mkgrey and rkcr)


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

Arathorn
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Awesome. Yeah, I only have a tiny fraction of the two-player games.... I'm not sure I'll get those added before I go on vacation. Thanks for all the work! Great data and input method.

 

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

Talamare
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Awesome work, Thanks for the effort

Arathorn
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I updated with games through this morning. Same link. I included all the two-player games, too. I didn't do any data corrections, so multiples may exist. 

I'm not having any luck getting a real-time connection to the google document. Google's API for accessing things is ... not as robust and complete as I'd like. It might be possible to set up a side SQL database and sync them all the time, but I'm not quite sure I have all the resources necessary to do something like that. If someone else is interested in doing this, I'm willing to help and provide ideas. It seems like it involves setting up something like Thunderbird with an account subscribed to changes in the document and then automatically downloading the new document and putting it into a SQL DB.

Let me know with other requests for reports.

 

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

lynkfox
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Hey guys. 

 

Its been a very. busy month for me. Between getting ready for a trip to Europe next month, my work place moving entirely to a new location (a local catering company) and said work picking up quite a bit, i didnt get to update this month. 

 

Now the gdoc doesnt seem to be accepting responses anymore - and Im not certain whats causing that

 

Thanks to Arathorn keeping the data going - ill try to find some time to work out the kinks, and we really should try to find someone with SQL knowledge to get us something more robust!


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

Paul
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I remain super excited about this project. I hope that one day (maybe in the next year? who the heck knows) I'll have the time to set up a SQL database and REST API or something, hosted on the GTG servers. That way you all could build more robust and clever frontends and displays of data.


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TheJayMann
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Taking the Sentinels statistics data, adding them to an SQL database, creating a RESTful API frontend for the data, and creating clients to consume and display this data.  This sounds like all sorts of wonderful joy.

Note: there was no sarcasm in this post.  Not even in this statement declining said use.


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Arathorn
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Updated with data through this morning. At http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/Sentinels1/Overview?:embed=y&:display_count=no%C2%A0which#1

 

Note: I tried to get some hero A with hero B joint comparisons going, but I couldn't quite make it work. Sorry.

 

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

lynkfox
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Well, while I don't have the time to really update the statistics, I did go through and update the form for Vengeance and the Dark Watch Promo's. 

Of course Vengeance complicates things quite very much. 

 

Very much

 

 

But such is the life of this project.

 

 

I removed all the formula's from the data, except the individual look up formulas (which have NOT been updated for Vengeance yet, be aware) that should help move things along a little bit.

 

 

Google Spreadsheets is also updating to be faster, stronger better - but sheet protections are not in yet. So i am not willing to put it up yet into the new format - because tampering is a real concern and breaking the form by too many people playing around is a possiblity.

 

So anyways there is that. Arathorns update isnt as often as would be awesome, but at the very least, the stats are getting collected. When someone *cough paul? cough xD kidding!* has time to put up a real SQL and API and what not stuff that be great, but at least until then the stats are being collected. :)


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

dclietz
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I wrote a script to see how the various heroes and villians are impacted by the player count (as I didn't see that done elsewhere - may have missed it) - see attached. Interestingly, some villians get much easier (with my metric - Omnitron, The Chairman, Plague Rat, The Matriarch, Iron Legacy, Voss) with more players, some stay about the same (Spite, Akashbhuta, Apostate, Dawn, Kismet), and The Dreamer gets much harder (and is actually the hardest 5p villain). I think this is mostly due to the extent of H icon usage and/or group vs individual attacks.

Similarly, some heroes get much better in larger groups (again by my metric - Visionary, Bunker, Tempest, Legacy, Wraith, Fixer) some get just a bit better (Haka, Chrono, Argent Adept) and some stay about the same (Absolute Zero, Nightmist, Omnitron-X). I think utility like villian deck manipulation and Legacy's base power gets better with larger groups, and heroes that have basically their own game plan seem to be just as good in 3P as in 5P. Some of the results for the heroes surprise me - I would have guessed Absolute Zero would add more to bigger teams b/c he gains so much when his damage is pumped. 

lynkfox
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very cool!

 

I hope in the next couple of weeks to be able to work on getting the sheets updated again. No idea when this will be, but hopefully Ill be able to find the time to do it in a more effecient manner allowing for easy updating.

 

If anyone out there has the knowledge for converting google docs into SQL Databases, please let me know. Arathorn and I don't have that knowledge unfortunately making it harder to update using the Tabelau software.


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

Paul
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If I get the time, I could convert the spreadsheets into a SQL schema and, indeed, would love to do so at some point, and also help you guys out with a hosting solution. I'm super busy most of the time, though, so if you happen to get to it before me, I would like to recommend going with PostgreSQL instead of mysql or something else.


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broccoli
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Having work with both (tangentally), I second the vote for postgres over mysql.


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charlotteML
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Just out of curiosity, is there anyway to know if the document submitted correctly? I've just filled it in for the first time and after the last page it just went to a blank white screen, does it usually do that?

lynkfox
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Not usually, it will usually say 'Thanks!'

 

go ahead and put it in again, i police the document for duplicates. Also, being the older googledocs, it doesn't always work properly... i hope they put in some sort of migrate tool to migrate from an older version to the new gsheets

 

ALSO! I've been working on updating the statistics again. Its hard going work,because in order to make it not so stupidly processive intensive, ive removed the formulas from the webdoc, to put them into an actually excel sheet. But gsheets and excel use similar... but different formulas. Most notably, array formulas are done  ENTIRELY different (its an actually formula function in gsheets, and in excell you have to end a formula by hitting ctr alt enter - and array formulas are how I am able to even begin to sort the information)

 

so ive had to rewrite most of the formulas I used to parse the data. Its slow going, but if you are interested in...

 

here is the villains as of today...

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tX46pXuJYoK21LVMXM8eHRkbLffUkR_-h4nP2X97hT0/edit#gid=0

 

Not pretty, but you can at least get an idea of where we have been going over the last few months since the last update!


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

arenson9
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broccoli wrote:

Having work with both (tangentally), I second the vote for postgres over mysql.

I've worked with MySQL, but not PostgreSQL. I like MySQL quite well.


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Greywind
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Lynkfox, why are you going with "loss percent" rather than "win percent" when the numbers look like the winning percentage?

lynkfox
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Because its villains. The Heroes have won that many times, yes, but the villains lost!


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

lynkfox
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HAH!

 

we have hit the limit of Cells allowed for an old version of Google Drive Sheets. (40,000) I am working on converting the sheet tot he new version without loosing any of the data. This may be difficult, but the new version runs faster, smother, better, and has no limit (well, 2million they say, but should be able to go above it (they say) ) 

 

So for the time being the response form has been disabled. When i get this figured out, I'll provide the new link to the new submit your data form.


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

lynkfox
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Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

lynkfox
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Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

Envisioner
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Heh, Citizen Dawn is the most popular villain by far.  Everyone wants a piece of her.

Only seven Vengeance Five games so far...not that surprising, of course.


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lynkfox
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The Heroes vrs specific Villains has been posted on the work book

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tX46pXuJYoK21LVMXM8eHRkbLffUkR_-h4nP2X97hT0/edit#gid=928215062


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

MigrantP
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The link in Sentinels Sidekick isn't working right now, but we will fix it pretty soon.


Lead Bit Flipper, Handelabra Games
Developer of Sentinels, Bottom of the 9th, and Spirit Island

Arathorn
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I took the latest data in the worksheet (might be the old one, I dunno) and created a few minimal reports at http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/SotMVengeance/VillainWinPct?:emb...

 

I think I have improved my turn-around cycle by about 15X, so I should be able to do more things and update more quickly now. 

 

Lynkfox, where is the new data being stored? And does it have 2-6 hero stuff all together?

 

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

Arathorn
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FWIW, I don't have a stake in the MySQL vs. PostgreSQL debate. I've used 'em both. Either will work fine for me to link up with, once I get all the necessary expansions into SQL instead of doing them manually. I made good progress on that in the last couple weeks (slower for this update, hopefully faster to do new updates). But I lost a bit of data I'd gotten manually. I need to figure out how to get # of heroes accurately with my new ingest mechanism going.

I've not used the new gsheets at all. I'm glad we won't be running into space issues.

Also, BTW, if it's tough to get all the new data together with the old data, I can pretty well do ingests from multiple sources, once I get a few things ironed out.

Paul, though, you could make me hugely happy with a SQL DB getting all the information in. HINT HINT! :P

 

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

lynkfox
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Its the same data lay out as the previous - limitations in the manner in which data is collected via the google sheets, unfortunately. Could probably put it through a Table converge function, maybe even on the same sheet, but not sure how much that would slow it down. the new Sheets are better for running processes, but still... over 7000 data entries really can throw a kink in it. ;)


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

Arathorn
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Lynkfox, one thing that I kinda almost need is unique headers for the columns. Right now, the hero incapicated column is the same for each hero. I don't know much about getting data into google sheets from a collection questionaire, but would it be possible to change that to Hero Incap-1 and then Hero Incap-2, and the like? Else, I can't pull in the data I want (well, can't is too strong, but I don't know how to). It all gets jumbled together. Same thing with "Flip?" for the Vengeance Five.

I still think I've got some good improvements on my turn-around time. I need to test a few more times and then I'll try to get everything put all together.

 

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

lynkfox
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Er. thats not easy.

 

The headers are set by the Form. Each header is the first line of the Form Question. Changing the name of the Form question might create a whole new column. Ill do some tetsing to see if thats the case and see if I can switch those around, but I'm not sure how flexible that will be.


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

lynkfox
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Wow. That was surprisingly easy. Yay new Google Forms. the Old forms would have made new columns when I changed the titles, but these new ones successfully just rename the columns. Should be much easier for you to parse the data!

 


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

Arathorn
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Fantastic! Thanks for doing that. I can do more analysis now. Eventually.

For now, I've just updated http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/Sentinels1/Overview?:embed=y&:di... with data through today. It seems a bit goofy, but I've not had the chance to full validate my results. Still, overall, things seem pretty close.

A couple other things in the data collection form I'd like to see changed:

  1. "Ra: Horus of the Two Horizons" switched to match the earlier "Ra: Horus of Two Horizons"
  2. "K.N.Y.F.E." only has the final period for hero 1. Elsewhere, she's "K.N.Y.F.E" -- I'd like to see those match exactly. Would make life a lot easier.
  3. "Young Legacy" shows up sometimes and "Youngest Legacy" sometimes. I thought it was "Young Legacy", but the important thing is consistency. Once the form is updated to always be one or the other, then we can update the stored records to all match.
  4. I think there might be one place with a "Dark Watch Setbac" on the form. The rest are all Setback (with the k), but I had to correct at least one.

 

I plan on doing a bit more with villain/hero frequency, position order, hero incapaciation, etc. in the next week or so (I hope). I also think I have my updating process down to under an hour. We can maybe make it even faster, if you're willing to eliminate some of the text lines breaking up data.

And, yes, I think I do have all the two-player data, too.

Thanks for the collection and such!

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

lynkfox
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Those names have now been changed on the Form, and ive gone through with a find and replace to switch them over. Should all be correct now! Let me know if you find anything else out of order.


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

lynkfox
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I also replaced all the Yes, Both Sides, Yes, Side A and Yes Side B with just Yes, for advanced mode, for making it easier to parse the data through.


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

Arathorn
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Thanks a million, lynkfox. I found and corrected a couple errors (that might not have been seen). But I'm still having a couple. Regardless, we've made fantastic progress in the last week!

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

Arathorn
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I think I've fixed all my errors. And I got the updated data, so it should be nearly completely accurate at this point.

I'll try to update weekly. But feedback on what people like (and what they want to see more of!) would probably help encourage me. I still should do some Incapicitated work and some work on the Vengeful Five. Anything else? 

And, all, please USE THE TABS across the top. There are LOTS of reports!

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

squad
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Arathorn wrote:

I think I've fixed all my errors. And I got the updated data, so it should be nearly completely accurate at this point.I'll try to update weekly. But feedback on what people like (and what they want to see more of!) would probably help encourage me. I still should do some Incapicitated work and some work on the Vengeful Five. Anything else? And, all, please USE THE TABS across the top. There are LOTS of reports!Arathorn

For the Heroes tab, can you show not only the overall win %, but also how many entries that data is based on?  Especially with the new heroes from Vengeance, I'd like to see how often they've been played relative to the other heroes, so I know when the sample size is big enough to trust.

Also, the entry for Youngest Legacy is showing 100% win, which I'm sure is an error.

Arathorn
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Good idea, squad. I added game count reports to a few sheets. And updated with latest data (which corrects the Youngest Legacy problem). And added a new tab (at the end) which shows SOME stuff with two different heroes. So, you can ask, does Legacy work well with Argent Adept, for instance. That's still not the clearest sheet, but it shows a bit of analysis in that regard.

 

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

lynkfox
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Oh WoW! i love the ability to filter it by username. So awesome! Now I know who i haven't played against whom! :)


Lynkfox.
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http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

squad
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Arathorn wrote:

Good idea, squad. I added game count reports to a few sheets. And updated with latest data (which corrects the Youngest Legacy problem). And added a new tab (at the end) which shows SOME stuff with two different heroes. So, you can ask, does Legacy work well with Argent Adept, for instance. That's still not the clearest sheet, but it shows a bit of analysis in that regard. Arathorn

Thanks!  And great idea about the two hero comparison!  I'll definitely put that information to good use.

Azqa
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First off, thanks for making this available - it makes me unreasonably happy to have tools for slicing and dicing data.  (Why yes, I do find myself growing more and more fond of Parse, why do you ask?)

Secondly, feedback for Arathorn:

  • It would be nice to have some global filtering available that extends across all reports, such as (de)selecting specific heroes and/or villains, preferably in a multi-checkbox dropdown list like you already have on several reports.  Excluding certain options in a given report one by one sometimes carries over to other reports, but not always.  Centralizing that functionality would be convenient.
  • It would be nice to have the ability to mass de-select groups of heroes/villains by expansion.  For example, I have no promo cards at all.  For awhile I only had the base set and the Vengeance expansion.  While it's great to be able to look at the data on cards that I don't have, I'm usually more concerned about the ones to which I do have access.  I've just started getting some friends into the game and it's helpful to give them some broad overviews based on this data - e.g. "Taking on The Chairman in Rook City, while thematically amazing, is likely to be very painful."
rrenaud
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Can I get access to the raw data?  I've made stats sites for race and dominion before.

http://jburnim.github.io/rftgstats/

http://councilroom.com

Arathorn
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At long last, I have finally updated the charts again. I didn't do anything more than just update with new data. I changed computers, and it made things complicated, but I should be in a position to be quicker on updating again.

I really like the idea of being able to filter by expansion as well. I'm not quite sure exactly how I'll implement that, but I know it's doable. I just have been slammed at work and slammed at home. Home should be easing a bit, at least. 

Later all!

Arathorn


"All that is gold does not glitter..."

glenn frog knight
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Joined: Jun 05, 2013

Hey guys, Matthew Gray (the guy running http://x.gray.org/sentinels-of-the-multiverse-difficulty-scores.html) doesn't have access to the raw data he needs to update his site anymore. Can we do anything to get him access to that?


Est Sularus oth Mithas: My Honor is My Life

lynkfox
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Joined: Nov 01, 2012

glenn frog knight wrote:

Hey guys, Matthew Gray (the guy running http://x.gray.org/sentinels-of-the-multiverse-difficulty-scores.html) doesn't have access to the raw data he needs to update his site anymore. Can we do anything to get him access to that?

 

Tell him to send me an email from the gdoc address he'll use to access them (lynkfox at gmail) and i'll add him up.


Lynkfox.
http://sentinelswiki.com/ The Sentinels of the Multiverse Wiki

http://mindwanderer.net/sotm/ - SoTM Statistics! Updated DAILY!

PM me if you're interested in playing with the Statistics Data!

SandyStriker
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Last seen: 5 years 4 months ago
Joined: Jul 09, 2014

I think this project is awesome and I have been adding a lot of games over the last few months. I really appreciate the work that went into getting this all set up. Now that it is Mid-November and I see Arathorn was last in the forums 4 months ago I began to worry that the sheets will no longer update and any activity added is now in vain. Does anyone know if these awesome sheets will be updated? If not, is there another way to see the raw data?

Thank you

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