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Questions about Innate Powers and Elements

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Chaosmancer
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Questions about Innate Powers and Elements

Actually, I thought to check the book first, and one of my questions was answered. Turns out you can't target two different lands with Serpent Rouses in Anger part 1 and part 2, I don't think it affected much, but still, that's something I'll have to watch for. And, looks like Keeper of the Wilds didn't read different so I'll have to retcon that easy win as potentially way less easy.

So, one big oops on my part, lets look at a potential second and Keeper's inate "Spreading Wilds" is a good choice. If I am playing cards, and I do not play any sun elements, and therefore do not reach the threshold for part one of the the power, but I do have a leaf which qualifies me for part two of the power, can I use part 2 without part 1?

Essentially, do I have to trigger the top part of an innate before triggering anything below it?

I assume this is still right, but I shall double check since I'm batting low. If a power allows me to use slow powers as fast (such as lighting's unique card) that can be applied to innate powers correct?

Sort of applying to innates, since I was looking at Sharp Fangs and remembering Thunderspeaker, their special rules allow you to move 1 prescence with tokens/dahan. Can you move a sacred site of 2 prescence by moving two tokens/Dahan, or can you move sacred sites with a single token/Dahan?

Thanks for taking the time to answer, and are there any other easy to miss rules about innates that I might also have missed? I know they don't take energy or card plays at least, and I think my biggest goof was breaking up effects of a single power over multiple lands


grysqrl
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You activate every line of an innate power that you qualify for, in the order in which they are printed.

Sharp Fangs and Thunderspeaker move one presence per Beasts/Dahan, so you would need to move two to move a sacred site.

dpt
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You must have been editing your post, since grysqrl only answered some of your questions. I'll go ahead and answer all the questions.

 

Each power targets a single land or a single spirit, including different lines of innates like those of Serpent Slumbering Beneath the Island or Keeper of the Forbidden Wilds, unless specifically said otherwise.

 

You do not have to trigger the top line of an innate before triggering lines below it.

 

An effect that lets you use slow powers as fast, like Lightning's special rule or card Lightning's Boon, can be used on innate powers, unless it says "power card" rather than "power".

 

As grysqrl said, you need two Dahan/Beasts to move a Sacred Site with Thunderspeaker/Fangs. (But one Dahan/Beasts moving could take one of the presence.)

 

If you're worried about missing stuff, take a look again at the rules for power use on pp. 16-17. On p. 17 are some of the rules that were most frequently missed/misunderstood in playtesting; the "One land! One turn! One use!" one covers the first point that you had misplayed.

 

Also bear in mind the "Whoops!" sidebar on p. 20.

phantaskippy
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Just want to make sure we're all on the same page, if I have no sun, but have 3 plant and 1 air as Keeper, I cannot push explorers, but I could target a land at range 3 with no explorers and add a wild token for spreading wilds.

dpt
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Correct.

Foote
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Thats the way I have been playing, but I will admit I was not 100% on whether that was actually correct or not. Glad I made the right assumption.

dragonlordged
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Seems strange to me that you have to use any activated parts of the innate power in the order printed. I'm not sure when you'd want to do otherwise, but I would have assumed you'd get to pick the order of those effects since they're happening simultaneously. Is there an explicit rulebook entry I should look at?

grysqrl
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dragonlordged wrote:

Seems strange to me that you have to use any activated parts of the innate power in the order printed. I'm not sure when you'd want to do otherwise, but I would have assumed you'd get to pick the order of those effects since they're happening simultaneously. Is there an explicit rulebook entry I should look at?

They're happening in sequence, not simultaneously. Rulebook page 17 - the top section on Elemental Thresholds: "If you meet more than one threshold under a Power, do each of them in order, from top to bottom."

grysqrl
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dpt wrote:

You must have been editing your post, since grysqrl only answered some of your questions.

Nah, I was just super-tired and followed the "do as much as you can" principle before I fell asleep. Apparently, I missed a lot.

dpt
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dragonlordged wrote:
Seems strange to me that you have to use any activated parts of the innate power in the order printed. I'm not sure when you'd want to do otherwise, but I would have assumed you'd get to pick the order of those effects since they're happening simultaneously. Is there an explicit rulebook entry I should look at?
Often it doesn't really matter, but Thunderspeaker and Sharp Fangs Beneath the Leaves both have innate powers where the order is important.
Eric R
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grysqrl wrote:

 

dragonlordged wrote:
Seems strange to me that you have to use any activated parts of the innate power in the order printed. I'm not sure when you'd want to do otherwise, but I would have assumed you'd get to pick the order of those effects since they're happening simultaneously. Is there an explicit rulebook entry I should look at?

 

They're happening in sequence, not simultaneously. Rulebook page 17 - the top section on Elemental Thresholds: "If you meet more than one threshold under a Power, do each of them in order, from top to bottom."

Worth noting: you do need to look at everything you're meeting first, because a lower threshold effect may either replace ("Instead:") or modify ("+1 Range" / damage-splitting) earlier bits. But people seem to find this sufficiently intuitive that I've never had a question about it.

And yes, effects are generally in the order you'd want. The rules say "in order" partly because there can exist Spirit designs for which it does matter, but more because it removes a usually-meaningless decision point and speeds play.

phantaskippy
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I was playing it where if you didn't meet the first elemental requirement you didn't get to do anything.

Which explains why I found keeper to be weaker than other people.

Chaosmancer
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Thanks for all the answers everyone, there are so many moving parts to this game, it feels a bit intimidating and I'll probably be confirming a lot of things over the next few months as things crop up and I'm not certain of the answer.

 

And the Living FAQ is amazing, I just recently got an answer to a question I never even thought to ask with Blazing Renewal and Mists of Oblivion. Turns out those thresholds do not increase the damage on the top part of the card, they are a seperate instance of damage that gets added to the damage dealing section (so they still activate the effects further down the card).