We are moving March 1, 2021. Please read this page for more information.

PAX East Tournament videos?

29 posts / 0 new
Last post
silopolis
silopolis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: Mar 11, 2015
PAX East Tournament videos?

I learned a TON about playing the game from watching the videos from the previous tournaments, and the commentary was great! I'm hoping that there are plans for posting the videos from the PAX East tournament on Youtube.

Any idea when those videos might go up?

Thanks!


Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

silopolis wrote:

I learned a TON about playing the game from watching the videos from the previous tournaments, and the commentary was great! I'm hoping that there are plans for posting the videos from the PAX East tournament on Youtube.Any idea when those videos might go up?Thanks!

You can find them on the Twitch page. The long Saturday video is mistakenly marked as "PAX South" but it really is the first day from East.

http://www.twitch.tv/greaterthangames/profile/past_broadcasts

Braithwhite does most of the commentary with Christopher on the Saturday video and you can see me for the first two games Saturday and the Finals match from Sunday

silopolis
silopolis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: Mar 11, 2015

Thanks!!

Craig
Craig's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Admin
Joined: Apr 18, 2012

They'll all be up on our YouTube channel soon, too!


Twitter: imprimis5. Follow away!

arenson9
arenson9's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 18 min ago
ModeratorPlaytester
Joined: Aug 08, 2011

I'm watching the PAX East finals, the third game. NEITHER Blade nor Omnitron were banned OR drafted?! Whoa.


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

arenson9 wrote:

I'm watching the PAX East finals, the third game. NEITHER Blade nor Omnitron were banned OR drafted?! Whoa.

It was an awesome finals match. You can bet that teams that do their homework will be looking for answers to Tachyon instead of Truth. Very excited for Gencon!

boxwood
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Playtester
Joined: Oct 31, 2012

Foote wrote:

 

arenson9 wrote:
I'm watching the PAX East finals, the third game. NEITHER Blade nor Omnitron were banned OR drafted?! Whoa.

 

It was an awesome finals match. You can bet that teams that do their homework will be looking for answers to Tachyon instead of Truth. Very excited for Gencon!

I'm glad to see with each tournament that the players are watching and growing, for the most part people arent playing defensively anymore and with each tournament people are coming up with great counters for the winning strategies of the last tournament.

 

Does the visionary ever see play at these tournaments (she never makes it to the stream table, granted I didn't see all of the newest tournament) or is she too much of a liability with her low hp like Unity was in the second finals match?

 

Also I love how quick that second finals match was.

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

boxwood wrote:

Does the visionary ever see play at these tournaments (she never makes it to the stream table, granted I didn't see all of the newest tournament) or is she too much of a liability with her low hp like Unity was in the second finals match? Also I love how quick that second finals match was.

Visionary was not used at all at PAX East to my knowledge. She requires a pretty specific strategy and team comp if you are going to attempt to use her. Given her low HP and the fact that she probably won't be scoring any incaps herself, youre pigeon-holed into probably taking Decoy and maybe one other die-manipulation power. The manipulation might come in handy once, but in a fast game you might only get one turn at bat (see the East finals) and you kinda have to make it count. 

I'd likely take a team like Proletariat/Omnitron/Visionary to try and make her work. Pro can take advantage of her manipulation from almost anywhere because of his clones, and Omnitron would be used to block LoS to Visionary on the wide open map used from PAX East. Omnitron would be a debuffer, and Pro would run his standard 1 defense/overwhelm  to set up chain hammers and hopefully be able to keep any kind of offense away from Visionary. It wouldn't be easy. Ambuscade will ruin your day pretty hard.

Donner
Donner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 39 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Mar 30, 2013

Visionary was used twice that I know of in PAX South.  

Omnitron doesn't block line of sight to my knowledge.

Note that Wrest the Mind also only requires line of sight. Visionary can be an amazing back-field character on open maps.  Just watch out for fast movers like Ambuscade, Tachyon, and Swift Bot.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

Donner wrote:

Omnitron doesn't block line of sight to my knowledge.

Omnitron raises the "Hex" that he is on by 1 elevation. Yes, he can cause LoS blocks.

Pydro
Pydro's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 53 min ago
ModeratorPlaytester
Joined: May 19, 2012

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

Stand corrected.

Well that makes it even worse for Visionary, as you can't ban Tachyon Wraith and Ambuscade all at once. One of them is going to own your face hard. Twist would help vs Tachyon but likely won't save you. Wrest the Mind has fairly very steep cost for how much it can backfire on you, and Foresight is only once per turn for one die (though you can possibly save someone from a big Aimed attack, but it depends on how many high dice they roll).

Decoy is almost a given if you don't wanna get ganked, so maybe you run Demoralize and Decoy? Maybe you run Twist and Foresight if you have Dawn +Truth on the team and take another heavy hitter like Ra or Wraith to debuff their big attackers.

The point is, you need a team built around Visionary and there are other characters that just own her in open space. You have to prop her up if you want her to help your team.

Matchstickman
Matchstickman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 50 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Apr 10, 2012

Foote wrote:

Stand corrected.

That doesn't block Line of Sight either. But sit down, you're spoiling the view.

 

Arg! You edited in actual salient points, now my funny line is ruined!


Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all

Temporary image until an H emoticon is added!

Donner
Donner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 39 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Mar 30, 2013

Giving Visionary cover protects against long-ranged Wraith attacks.  And she isn't crazy squishy when she has decoy projection and the ability to manipulate die rolls.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

Donner wrote:

Giving Visionary cover protects against long-ranged Wraith attacks.  And she isn't crazy squishy when she has decoy projection and the ability to manipulate die rolls.

She can manipulate a single die most of the time. Wrest the Mind costs a health point and the reroll could very well be worse for you than the one before making it a fairly large gamble. 

Cover still doesn't protect you from Ambuscade/Tachyon.

And I agree she is far less squishy with Decoy, but if you must run with Decoy than her ability as a supporter becomes pretty limited considering thats the whole reason shes on the team. 

I'm not saying shes bad mind you, but these are the types of considerations teams have to make when deciding who to use in a tournament. You have to build the whole team around her to make the best use of her. I think pairing her up with Truth can allow her to be very good though, but you give up a team spot for someone who could be driving for incaps and scores.

Donner
Donner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 39 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Mar 30, 2013

Remember, though, that Foresight removes one good die for the villains and gives one good die to her allies.  It by itself can cause an attack to be completely negated.  For example:  Aimed Fission Blaster at range 6 with only 1 6.  Or a dodge that didn't quite roll high enough gaining a 6.  She IS squishy but in the games I have run here, she proved to be not nearly as squishy as she appears. 

And if you want more control, go for Twist the Ether and be more up-front.  Even with just it and Foresight she can be tanky.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

boxwood
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Playtester
Joined: Oct 31, 2012

Quote:
You have to prop her up if you want her to help your team.


That is unfortunate, having the player rely on decoy projection and having to be supported by a specific setup to be able to support, I really hope someone can find a way to utilize her.
Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

boxwood wrote:
Quote:
You have to prop her up if you want her to help your team.

 

That is unfortunate, having the player rely on decoy projection and having to be supported by a specific setup to be able to support, I really hope someone can find a way to utilize her.

I would love to see someone try and GenCon. I believe she could be good, but you can't just plug Visionary in any team composition like you can with Dawn or Bunker for instance and expect to be competitive. I think Proletariat would be a great teamate for her

Braithwhite
Braithwhite's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 6 hours ago
AdminPlaytester
Joined: Sep 03, 2012

Actually, she's a lot more flexible than she appears, but is incredibly dependant on her team to really maximize everything. Foresight is incredible for ruining people's aimed blasts (or up-close and personal attacks).  Levitation makes non-mobile teams happy (use with Proletariat and watch them fly across the mountains!) The decoy is a great defensive card for utterly frustrating anyone dependant on melee combat (against the Operative, the Visionary is probably the most frustrating opponent).  Her Demoralize is great for setting opponents up to fail. Since the Maelstrom doesn't target allies (or require line of sight), you can lurk behind buildings and generally lure your opponents out.  

Twist the Ether is fantastic for offense or defense, since it can be used for your allies as well as enemies.

Basically, Visionary can be used to wreck just about anyone's carefuly contructed plan and disrupt the field for her allies to follow up on.  My favorite thing to do is to rock Foresight and Twist the Ether, and stay behind my allies.  It adds up. 

 

silopolis
silopolis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: Mar 11, 2015

I'm pretty bummed no one played Proletariat in any of the videos. I've only used him once and died a horrible death (It was stupid; I had him Overwhelm an exploding Bot without remembering that the Bot was going to explode, and it hit two of his copies), but I really enjoyed his gameplay, and I'd love to see him played at a tournament level with commentary from Chris as to how he could best be played.

At least there was more variety in this tournament than in previous ones. People played Dawn with something other than Citizen Truth! And the Operative showed up! :)

phantaskippy
phantaskippy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 5 days ago
Playtester
Joined: Jan 26, 2013

Via is going to be a huge liability while Tachyon is played.  If you want a stall game Via is incredible, but that is hard to pull off.  Wraith+Vis+Legacy/Beacon is great to catch a team off guard, but it lacks staying power for multiple rounds and requires a map favorable to Wraith sniping.

If you can afford intercept-danger sense vs the opponent this stall is epic, otherwise it is just good, which means you still need a map and opponent you can play a stall game with.

Mostly Vis is a hero you would need to last pick when they can't counter pick you and you know all the variables of the match.  That means you need a good duo strategy with a counter pick third hero design that can rock visionary.

Donner
Donner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 39 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Mar 30, 2013

Visionary also works better against melee characters than ranged.  For one, if she gets away from Decoy Projection then when she swaps, the melee people have to chase her down.  For another, they have to be in Twist the Ether range to hit her.  I found her very good vs. Proletariat whether she goes Twist the Ether and Foresight or Decoy Projection and Foresight.  Any attacks with only 3 or 4 dice she can mostly survive with little to no damage.  Any more than that and she can be in big trouble.  

As for Wrest the Mind being costly,losing one health to re-roll a very strong attack or very weak defense can save the team from an incapacitation.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

Braithwhite
Braithwhite's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 6 hours ago
AdminPlaytester
Joined: Sep 03, 2012

Against tachyon- since Brain burn happens before the visionary is incapped, There is all sorts of potential for the visionary to win a game by being taken down. If the game is tied, taking down the Visionary could be the worst possible move- especially for someone who tends to use her HP for fuel like Tach!

in addition, Foresight can be used on things like movement rolls... Which can royally screw up Tachyons plans.

Since Wrest the Mind can be used multiple times, you could wait for your ally to finish their turn whomping the enemy and making them exhaust thselves to keep a few HP..  And then Wrest the mind on your buddies movement roll (as many times as you need) if you think a brain burn could take out the wounded foe. 

Its not something you'll use every time- and like all the characters, you can get countered, run into unexpected tactics, or have a team that doesn't click. But she's not a one-trick pony or last resort, and she can be the lynchpin of a very nasty team. 

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

Braithwhite wrote:

since Brain burn happens before the visionary is incapped, There is all sorts of potential for the visionary to win a game by being taken down. 

During the times I do play with Visionary, I favor AIMing over taking a DODGE because I want that threat of Brain Burn (IDK if thats a correct play, but it's what I've leaned towards). Tack on a token generator like Legacy and possibly Dawn with Hammer/Anvil or Blood/Sweat/Tears (an offensive minded Citizen for sure), you could do some real damage and may not mind not running Decoy Projection while still keeping Visionary up front supporting with Twist and Foresight. +ATK tokens and Maelstrom could be a game ender.

You also gotta figure she needs to support an already strong duo. And I've said it a lot during playtesting that Legacy/Dawn are so good together that you could plug anyone in that 3rd slot as a "tech" option for a counter-pick. Visionary could easily fit right in there.

Donner
Donner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 39 min ago
Playtester
Joined: Mar 30, 2013

Foote wrote:

 

Braithwhite wrote:
since Brain burn happens before the visionary is incapped, There is all sorts of potential for the visionary to win a game by being taken down. 

 

During the times I do play with Visionary, I favor AIMing over taking a DODGE because I want that threat of Brain Burn (IDK if thats a correct play, but it's what I've leaned towards). Tack on a token generator like Legacy and possibly Dawn with Hammer/Anvil or Blood/Sweat/Tears (an offensive minded Citizen for sure), you could do some real damage and may not mind not running Decoy Projection while still keeping Visionary up front supporting with Twist and Foresight. +ATK tokens and Maelstrom could be a game ender.You also gotta figure she needs to support an already strong duo. And I've said it a lot during playtesting that Legacy/Dawn are so good together that you could plug anyone in that 3rd slot as a "tech" option for a counter-pick. Visionary could easily fit right in there.

Excellent!  Visionary becomes a time-bomb.  Either try and set her off early (and potentially die from it) or be killed by it later.


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

PeterCHayward
PeterCHayward's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Game Designer
Joined: Apr 27, 2015

At the first of the RevoCorp Oceanic events, Visionary hit the table in almost every game. Apparently Australians just love the Visionary.


Australian living in Toronto. I make a lot of games. http://about.peterchayward.com

Christopher
Christopher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 13 hours ago
AdminGame Designer
Joined: Aug 01, 2011

I knew I liked Australians.


"Your goodness must have some edge to it — else it is none."
 - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 14 hours ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

PeterCHayward wrote:

At the first of the RevoCorp Oceanic events, Visionary hit the table in almost every game. Apparently Australians just love the Visionary.

I'd love to hear some more details about this Peter if you could manage. What were common groupings that had Visionary in them? What were common power loadouts? Did she prove effective in the matches she was in? 

Bharryn
Bharryn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 weeks ago
Joined: Jan 23, 2015

I can't speak for RevoCorp, but at our first Indianapolis Tactics Leavue gathering featured two appearances by Visionary.  The player who used Visionary paired her with a defense focused Legacy and won both matches.