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Oblivaeon Edge Questions. Here be spoiliers!

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Twitsan
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Oblivaeon Edge Questions. Here be spoiliers!

All right all you rules lawyers lets settle some stuff. If other people want to add to this please keep up the letters and I will try and edit this post with the quick answers.

Twitsan
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A) Void Guard Dr. Medico has a card that lets him heal at the end of each turn. A1) Is that each and every turn or only on turns that end in his battle zone? A2)What if a scion that started in the other battle zone ends its turn in his battle zone? A3) What if a scion that started in his battle zone ends its turn in the other battle zone

B) When Dark Mind is destroyed do cards that where under her go into play even if their owner is in the other battle zone?

C) Does being Immune to damage trump Irreducible damage?

D) Which Battle zone is removed when the countdown token reaches 0?

E) Does entering a battle zone count as entering play?

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There are minor spoilers here, so please title your thread appropriately.

A) Presumably every turn means every turn.  Characters in other zones can't ordinarily affect each other, but the fact that they have a turn doesn't change.

B) Good question.

C) has nothing to do with OblivAeon, so the answer is easy: immunity trumps irreducible.  The only thing irreducible helps against is reduction.

D) Hm, I think at some point the environment destruction rules and the sentence on the Inevitable Destruction card about the environment being removed is the one OblivAeon is in used to be in the same place.  Or the ObllivAeon card itself included that clause--it's a little weird that it says to follow those rules but not explicitly to remove an environment.  I assume the one he's in.

E) I infer no.


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The reason for Oblivaeon moving to the new environment is because if an environment has a game over condition (Wagner Mars Base, Silver Gulch, Celestial Tribunal, MDP and Champion Studios) and said condition is met, instead of the game ending you remove the environment as per the environment destruction rules.

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On the topic of A, when asked something similar on twitter ages ago Christopher said "Most things come down to "treat each battle zone as its own game - battle zones cannot see or affect each other"."

Which appears to say something along the lines of "How can you see start and end of turns that happen in another game?" with regards to things like Divine Focus or Regeneration.

That tweet is here for reference.

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I've been wondering about stuff like Bounties...for example, if you stick By Any Means on something and then move zones, does the Bountied target still take extra damage frmo stuff or does the Bounty "deactivate" and just sit there doing nothing because Jim isn't there any more? Same for stuff like Constructs and stuff I suppose...presumably they stay where they are if the hero whose deck they belong to moves away, but can they still be used if they don't have an effect that requires that hero to activate it (eg Twist won't do anything because it specifics the Visionary is the one altering the damage)...


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Things that are attached to something in a different zone do everything that they would normally WITHOUT the input of the owner of the attached object.  This means anything that says "may" is ignored, as there is nobody to make the choice.  Passive effects still work.

Think of it in story:

Chrono Ranger sees a nasty baddy in Insula Primalis and tells his teammmates to destroy it By Any Means!  Meanwhile, he is asked for help on Wagner Mars Base and tells his teammates "I gotta go, but keep killing that nasty baddy!"

On Dokthorath, Captain Cosmic hands Mr. Fixer a Cosmic Weapon and tells him to go use it in the fight in the Enclave of the Endlings.

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H) So where do OBA cards get played. OBA killed two locus in BZ1. Each would cause the next OBA card to be played. The first ONE card moved him to BZ2. Does the second card happen in BZ2 or BZ1?

i)I went with the worst case from above. So the second card caused the countdown track to reach 0. Would OBA also get the end of turn from his next page?

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1. If it’s the end of turn effects the aeon locus’s would be destroyed seperately so the second card wouldn’t be played as by the time Oblivaeon attempts to destroy it its in the other battle zone and unreachable.

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And for "Does OblivAeon also get his new end of turn effect if he flips during his previous end of turn effect?", yes, Kaargra Warfang can play Get Back In There during her end of turn, flip, and then also do damage and play a third card this turn.

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Ooh, ooh, I thought of another thing - Okay, so cards played on other targets that you then leave behind due to moving still get their effects as long as they don't need you to be there (as per the answer to my previous questin above), but what about cards you leave behind which cause you to do a thing when they're destroyed? Kill on Sight, for example (draw three cards and destroy this card), or Constructs when you have out that card that lets you do stuff when they are/would be destroyed? If you're not in the same Battle Zone as them when the thing happens that causes their on-destruction trigger, do you just stick the cards in your trash without being able to do the thing (since presumably they don't just float around nowhere just because your deck/trash is in the wrong zone)?

I just want to confirm this stuff before it has a chance to come up, so I know what to do when it does :D.


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Yes. As you're not there, anything which refers to you does not apply.


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In his first phase Oblivaeon brings out a new Scion whenever one of his Scion's leaves play/is destroyed, correct?

The reason I ask is that because as I understand it when you take out Faultless and make him flip to his hero side, he's not actually removed from play, even if he's no longer a scion.

Thus Oblivaeon does not automatically replace him until either Fautless' hero side is defeated, or Oblivaeon reaches his second phase, when he'll adds a Scion to any battle zone that lacks one or some other effect directly says to add more Scions.

Is this the correct rule reading/how the game is intended to be played if Faultless is one of the first two Scions to come out?

EDIT: Never mind, answered from On High...

 

https://twitter.com/gtgchristopher/status/1028720365126737920?s=21

 

 

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So to confirm, if Kill on Sight is on something in the other Battle Zone from you and that target is destroyed, the Bounty just goes to your trash with no card draw?

Also, finally got round to playing our own Oblivaeon game yesterday. Missed a few bits and pieces here and there but there's a lot to keep track of. We got Oblivaeon down to about 75hp on his final phase but there was only one point left on the countdown (with no spare environments waiting) and then That One Scion came out anyway...you know, that one. And then Oblivaeon had his final turn and blew up the Multiverse. D'oh.

Anyway, from that game, a few things came up I wanted to query. I can only think of a couple right now, though, but there might be more I remember later...

Firstly - Setting Sun Ra was played and incapped, and the player came back as the base (original) version of Ra, but then on a later turn (whilst still playing this Ra) used Setting Sun Ra's incap ability to deal 10 irreducible damage and remove himself from the game. Now, this ability specifically says "remove Ra from the game" so we ruled that it also removed the currently active Ra from the game as well (since it doesn't specify which Ra, and he is called Ra too...), and made the entire deck no longer available - it was all put back in the box, even the character card for the newly-incapped Ra. Did we do this wrong somehow and it wasn't supposed to obliterate the other Ra? Should we have just dealt the damage and removed the incapped Setting Sun Ra's card and nothing else?

Secondly - One player had played base-Tempest and had been using that amazingly useful incap to make people immune to a damage type till the start of his next turn. Since it specifes to select a damage type and make heroes immune to it, rather than select specific heroes and make them immune to a damage type, we ruled that the immunity was a constantly-passive thing in the Battle Zone in which it was activated, meaning it affected heroes who had been outside of that zone when it was used but then moved in (and would lose the immunity if they moved out again). Similarly, if that player of the incapped Tempest had moved while the immunity was active then presumably it would have move with him and only heroes in the zone he moved to would now be immune. I'm pretty sure we did this right but just wanted to check.

I'll probably think of some more stuff at some point. There's a lot to remember ;).


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It's been too long. Hello, everyone, have you all been good? I'm playing my first game of Oblivaeon, and I've come across I have one edge case, and one thing that's just... really confusing.

  1. Love Interest from Champion Studios. When it's drawn: what if it's an Oblivaeon game, and only one hero is in the battle zone? What if it's a none-Oblivaeon game, and all but one hero are incapacitated; can incapacitated heroes be picked? If so, could you pick two incapacitated heroes? 
    For the ongoing effects: If it's a none-Oblivaeon game, what if one of the heroes is affectd by Isolated Hero? In an Oblivaeon game, what if the heroes are in separate zones? What happens when one of the heroes is returned to the box? What about if a variant of that hero comes back out later?
  2. Form The Mecha-Knight/Mecha-Knight Ultra Strike: the reward effects are based on how many cards are underneath it, but nothing on either side of the card suggests a way for cards to be placed under it. Am I missing something? (I'm worried there's a rule I've missed stating that mission rewards are stacked and only the top one in a play areas has an effect, or something. I really hope not!)

Any ideas? I'd be grateful for clarification :)

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aawood wrote:
Form The Mecha-Knight/Mecha-Knight Ultra Strike: the reward effects are based on how many cards are underneath it, but nothing on either side of the card suggests a way for cards to be placed under it. Am I missing something? (I'm worried there's a rule I've missed stating that mission rewards are stacked and only the top one in a play areas has an effect, or something. I really hope note!)Any ideas? I'd be grateful for clarification :)

It has the Concept keyword and Void Guard Idealist can put cards under Concepts in play.  No other rewards or OblivAeon rules are going to put a card under it. 


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aawood
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

 

aawood wrote:
Form The Mecha-Knight/Mecha-Knight Ultra Strike: the reward effects are based on how many cards are underneath it, but nothing on either side of the card suggests a way for cards to be placed under it. Am I missing something? (I'm worried there's a rule I've missed stating that mission rewards are stacked and only the top one in a play areas has an effect, or something. I really hope note!)Any ideas? I'd be grateful for clarification :)

 

It has the Concept keyword and Void Guard Idealist can put cards under Concepts in play.  No other rewards or OblivAeon rules are going to put a card under it. 

Ahh, we haven't played with the Idealist yet, cool! Thanks for the heads up :)

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Ahh, I remembered another query to go with the ones I asked about above...

Legacy plays Take Down. He has Oblivaeon, a Scion, and some Aeon Men in his Battle Zone, meaning he can affect all their decks. But does this mean that they also can't play cards in the other Battle Zone? We played that they couldn't and had a bit of a breather for a round as none of the bad guys played any cards anywhere but I'm wondering now if we did that right, especially since Take Down doesn't specifically target a deck but just says "Villain card cannot be played" which I'm now thinking only means "they can't be played in the zone that Legacy is currently in". But I'm guessing that something that did specifically target a deck (Mist Bound, for example) would stop it from playing in either zone?


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Ameena, I would read it as (for Take-Down) all villain decks cannot be played in his battlezone, but could be in the other, where as the one deck cannot be played at all with Mistbound. Though then you get into the question of "Is the OblivAeon deck a valid target if he and Nightmist are in separate zones" that I think the answer to is yes since he is Multiverse spanning :P
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I would likely read it like this:

Take Down shuts down everything that's labeled as a Villain deck, regardless of location.

Mistbound shuts down a single chosen deck, regardless of location, as the continued effect isn't contingent on Nightmist actually doing anything.  So, Nightmist could shut down the OblivAeon deck in Battle Zone 1, move to Zone 2, and Mistbound would still work.

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It may seem odd but I remember reading (on the Oblivaeon’s rulebook or some preview by Christopher) that every card can ONLY affect the battle zone in which it is played and we must treat each battle zone as a completely separate game of Sentinels. 

Sure Take Down says “Villains cards cannot be played”, but in an Oblivaeon game we need to treat every sentence like that one as though it ended with “in this battle zone”.

So villains can’t play cards in the battle zone (aka in the game) where Legacy is. Oblivaeon, Aeon Men and Scions decks can still play cards in the other battle zone because there isn’t a Take Down card in effect there preventing their cards to be played. 

And since Take Down is played in Legacy’s play area, if some card make him move to the other battle zone, the effect now is active in the new battle zone and villain cards can then be played in the former battle zone (where the card was originally played but it no longer is in play)

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Tootzo has it right.

Temporary effects created by a hero only affect the battle zone they are in, so Mistbound only works in the battle zone where NightMist is.


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Wait, Tootzo was talking about Take Down, not Mistbound.  So if Nightmist uses Mistbound on OblivAeon's deck (when she's in OblivAeon's zone) and then one of them moves, OblivAeon can play cards again?  Then I assume other targeted effects like Hypersonic Assault and Stun Bolt also stop working if their target and creator are no longer in the same zone?  That's not what I had inferred.


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MindWanderer wrote:

Wait, Tootzo was talking about Take Down, not Mistbound.  So if Nightmist uses Mistbound on OblivAeon's deck (when she's in OblivAeon's zone) and then one of them moves, OblivAeon can play cards again?  Then I assume other targeted effects like Hypersonic Assault and Stun Bolt also stop working if their target and creator are no longer in the same zone?  That's not what I had inferred.

Take Down is an ongoing card that has an effect while it is in play.

Hypersonic Assault is a one-shot which causes an effect on a particular target.


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Mistbound is also a one-shot which causes an effect on a particular target (a deck, not a "target" in SotM nomenclature, but same idea).


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Tootzo
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EVERY effect stops working when the “target” is in a different time zone. Only cards attached to targets move with them and still work when the target moves in another battle zone. I’m thinking about cards that prevent their target to do something or deal him damage when something happens and such. 

If an attached card says “you” can do something when something else happens, it’s referring to the hero who played that card and it won’t work if the hero is not in the same battle zone as that card. 

As for Mistbound, it works the same. I know that Oblivaeon’s, Scion and Aeon Men’s decks are “shared” between the two battle zones, but each battle zone is independent from the other so if you “lock” a villain’s deck in a battle zone, that very same deck can be played in the other because your card’s effect hasn’t been played there and as such it’s not active. 

Also, I’m not sure about this because I don’t have the cards here ATM, but if Scions and Oblivaeon say “put the top card of Aeon Men’s deck into play”, that is not considered a “play the top card” action and so Mistboubd won’t prevent Aeon Men’s deck cards to be put into play, even in the battle zone where you played it. But as I said, I’m not sure about the wording on Aeon Men’s card play on Oblivaeon and Scion cards

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MindWanderer wrote:

Mistbound is also a one-shot which causes an effect on a particular target (a deck, not a "target" in SotM nomenclature, but same idea).

Whoa. Good friggin' point! Given that, I'm also confused by John saying Mistbound's effect would move w/ NightMist.


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The two questions that came up during our initial game were:

 

1. How does Pillars of Hercules work? Is Every turn only for Heroes and Villain turns in that battle zone? If you move into that battlezone at the start of your turn does it trigger an villain card play? Or Is it Every turn Regardless of which zone they are in? If so, how do you determine the zone the villain card is played in?

2. After a your Hero is incapped and you chose a new hero did that hero "enter the battlezone"? Specifically the Progeny sheild card, do that hero immediately eat damage and add a counter or do you need to start in the other zone then move into OblivAeon's to trigger the shield?

 

 

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Who pays the cost for Paradoja Figurehead, and during whose turns do its effects trigger?  La Comodora and her turn, or the person whose play area it is in?


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La Comodora at the start of her turn pays the discard cost and movement triggers during her end of turn regardless of play area


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That's what I was thinking, just wasn't sure.  Thanks!


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I’ve been wondering about this for ages and now there’s a case where it can officially happen:

Z. What if two tagrets share multiple nemesis icons (e.g. Faultless and Dark Mind)?  Is the damage increase still 1?  Or is it more?

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A couple more that have come up.

The shield card The Arc of Unreality/Cosmic Repurcussions, on its second side, allows players to discard card to prevent a card's destruction.  What if that card is destroyed by taking heavy damage?  Is the damage prevented, or does the card just get destroyed anyway?  If you can't save a card this way, this shield seems to require a lot of meta-gaming to make sure the environments you choose make it possible to beat the shield.

Others have already asked about the Arc of Unreality when a new hero enters play after an old one is incapacitated.  Does that count as entering that battle zone?  I'd like to echo that question, because I also want to know.

Oblivaeon's card "Disrupt Spactime" deals damage, then moves heroes damaged this way to the other battle zone.  If no one is moved, Oblivaeon does.  What if the damage incapacitates all its victims?  Do their hero tokens still move?  Does Oblivaeon move?


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I can possibly help for the last point - generally when something would react to being dealt damage but is destroyed by said damage, they don't get to activate their trigger because they've been destroyed, and thus said trigger isn't around any more - for example, if Ab'Zero has his Isothermic Transducer out and is dealt Fire damage which incaps him, all his cards are removed and so the IT doesn't get to trigger. So I would say a hero incapped by Oblivaeon in this way isn't a "hero who has been dealt damage" but "an incapped hero".

Wondering if anyone had any insight to offer on the Ra and Tempest queries I made further up this page? The Take Down one seems to have been resolved, at least :).


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Ameena wrote:

Firstly - Setting Sun Ra was played and incapped, and the player came back as the base (original) version of Ra, but then on a later turn (whilst still playing this Ra) used Setting Sun Ra's incap ability to deal 10 irreducible damage and remove himself from the game. Now, this ability specifically says "remove Ra from the game" so we ruled that it also removed the currently active Ra from the game as well (since it doesn't specify which Ra, and he is called Ra too...), and made the entire deck no longer available - it was all put back in the box, even the character card for the newly-incapped Ra. Did we do this wrong somehow and it wasn't supposed to obliterate the other Ra? Should we have just dealt the damage and removed the incapped Setting Sun Ra's card and nothing else?

I'm still waiting on my copy of the game, but from what I've read from other posts you would only remove Setting Sun Ra. I believe each variant is considered a seperate character. Similar to how when playing with Void Guard and the Sentinels, if a Void Guard Dr. Medico card says "Dr. Medico deals himself 2 energy damage", you would only deal Void Guard Dr. Medico damage.

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All other versions of Ra would still be available.  Thematically you can play it that way but rulewise normal Ra and Horus Ra are available to use.  All you lose access to is Setting Sun Ra incaps.  

 

For Tempest I’d play like you did which is the damage type immunity applies only to heroes of the Battle Zone of the hero that triggered that incap.  


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Ameena wrote:

I can possibly help for the last point - generally when something would react to being dealt damage but is destroyed by said damage, they don't get to activate their trigger because they've been destroyed, and thus said trigger isn't around any more - for example, if Ab'Zero has his Isothermic Transducer out and is dealt Fire damage which incaps him, all his cards are removed and so the IT doesn't get to trigger. So I would say a hero incapped by Oblivaeon in this way isn't a "hero who has been dealt damage" but "an incapped hero".

By that reasoning then, the hero tokens would stay put, and then Oblivaeon himself would move, because no heroes moved due to that card.  Makes me wonder how in the Multiverse one is supposed to deal with Oblivaeon's shields other than Primary Objective.

Speaking of shield cards, I have a question on Source of Foes/Counteraction Aura.  Counteraction Aura reads "At the start of OblivAeon's turn, if there are no Aeon Men in either Battle Zone".  Does this mean one Battle Zone needs to be clear of Aeon Men, or both?


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Ameena wrote:

I can possibly help for the last point - generally when something would react to being dealt damage but is destroyed by said damage, they don't get to activate their trigger because they've been destroyed, and thus said trigger isn't around any more - for example, if Ab'Zero has his Isothermic Transducer out and is dealt Fire damage which incaps him, all his cards are removed and so the IT doesn't get to trigger.

I agree it's vague and would prefer clarification, but I'm going to disagree with you here.  Absolute Zero doesn't retaliate in this case because A) the Isothermic Transducer is removed from play, so its text isn't there to have its effect, and B) only targets, environment cards, and the environment itself can be a source of damage (which is why incapped heroes and villains never deal damage, they make something else deal damage).
 

In this case, an incapped hero is still a hero that has been dealt damage, even though it isn't a target anymore.  I'd say it moves.


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The Wraith's Arsenal says each player may draw 1 card and if all players draw a card this way it gets destroyed.

I'm pretty sure only players with a hero in that battle zone have the option to draw a card. 

However, if there is only one hero in the battle zone with Freedom Tower, if their player draws a card, is The Wraith's Arsenal destroyed, because all players [in that battle zone] drew a card, or does it stay because not all players [in the game] drew a card?

 

As a bonus, non-OblivAeon related edge case, it appears you can get stuck in an endless loop if the environment deck is nothing but Entry Points and all the Rooms are in the trash.

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rjc917 wrote:

As a bonus, non-OblivAeon related edge case, it appears you can get stuck in an endless loop if the environment deck is nothing but Entry Points and all the Rooms are in the trash.

I think what would happen would be each Entry point would play the next until all 4 were in play and the 4th would cause a shuffle and play an environment card. Then all 4 would be shuffled into the environment deck, preventing an infinite loop.

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rjc917 wrote:

As a bonus, non-OblivAeon related edge case, it appears you can get stuck in an endless loop if the environment deck is nothing but Entry Points and all the Rooms are in the trash.

This was found in the video game and this update was made:

  • The wording on Entry Point is changed to prevent an infinite loop: the “play the top card” and “reshuffle this card” clauses are switched. The damage increase effect from Entry Point cards waiting to get reshuffled is in play until they get reshuffled.

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Thought of something just now.

Let's say the scenario is Baron Blade vs. La Comodora, the rest doesn't matter. Blade has Backlash Field in play, Comodora has Combat Timing.

If I'm hit by, let's say, a Devious Disruption, a fresh Blade Battalion, doesn't matter, Combat Timing goes off, prevents the damage, and I can deal a target 2 projectile damage. I hit Blade. This sets off his Backlash Field, dealing me three damage...

Which would then also be prevented, allowing me another 2 projectile? <.< Because Combat Timing hasn't destroyed itself yet, that single damage instance hasn't fully resolved because of the retaliation. Am I reading this right?

Powerhound_2000
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PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

Based on how it’s worded it seems like it could be triggered twice in that situation. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
steveothemocker
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Does Love transcend the multiverse? I feel like it does not. If Love Interest from Champion Studios comes into play, I would guess you could only pick Heroes in that battlezone. If thats the case what happens when that battlezone only has a lone warrior? Does that Hero just get a -2dr for the first hit each turn? I guess this could also come up if all but one Heroes are incapped.  Also once Love has been established what happens when the Heroes are moved to seperate zones?