The forums moved on March 1, 2021. Please read this page for more information.

Non-turns?

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
payprplayn
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: Dec 25, 2014
Non-turns?

I have observed on a couple of occasions that when Xtreme PW Fanatic’s innate power causes her to redirect her damage to Aeon Master, and Aeon Master is in the other battle zone, the damage does not cause Aeon Master to play an Aeon Man.  I'm wondering if this is intentional.  I suppose since one battle zone doesn't "see" the other, Aeon Master doesn't see Fanatic's turn as a turn, and thus the damage isn't the first in the turn. If this is the case, then I'm led to wonder, what "turn" is it in Aeon Master's battle zone? the last turn that was taken by an entity in that zone?  No turn at all? 

Edit: the answer apears to be no turn at all, since I just observed this same effect after taking a turn with Legacy in Aeon Master's battle zone in which Aeon Master took no damage.  Fanatic's turn was next, and she redirected damage across zones to Aeon Master.  No Aeon Man was played.  Still unsure if this is a bug or intended behavior.


Trajector
Trajector's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Joined: Dec 13, 2014

I'm guessing the bug here is that Fanatic shouldn't be able to deal damage to a target that's not in the same battle zone she is.

payprplayn
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: Dec 25, 2014

Trajector wrote:

I'm guessing the bug here is that Fanatic shouldn't be able to deal damage to a target that's not in the same battle zone she is.

Possibly.  In fact, that's how I initially expected it to work, but since the rules say things in one battle zone can't affect things in the other unless the effect explicitly says otherwise, the question turns on what counts as explicitly saying otherwise.  I would have assumed that effects which don't include the term "battle zone" need not apply, but Kill the Spirit is interesting, since it explicitly designates a specific target, and that target may be in the other battle zone. 

I don't follow the various special rulings and clarifications, so I don't know if the question of Kill the Spirit's interaction with battle zones has been addressed, but I imagine it has, for no other reason than that it is implemented the way it is.  The Aeon Master thing is enough of an edge case that it may not have come up in testing, but the basic interaction between a hero variant's innate power and one of the central mechanics of the new game mode surely must have.  Thus, I can only assume that Kill the Spirit is supposed to work across battle zones. However, I would still think that when it does it woud count as happening on some turn, though I'm not sure which.

Cult of Gloom
Cult of Gloom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Playtester
Joined: Jul 30, 2017

Whats even better is that her incap ability works across battlezones. So you can have your entire team sitting in one battlezone punching each other and the damage will all fly over to OblivAeon if you can manage for a way for the hero with her incap ability and OblivAeon to start in the same battlezone and then have one or the other move by the end of her turn. Great if you can beat form 2 on that heroes turn then you have the rest of your hero team beating on him for free without extra card plays for a round.


Remember, don't turn that frown upside down! Turn it into Eldritch Power to summon our Dark Master to Spite a world that has wronged you.

Bigbywolfe
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 11 months ago
Joined: Jan 27, 2017

Does Fanatics Power say it can damage a target in a different Battle Zone? If not, then it does not explicitly say that her Power can damage a target in a different battle zone.

Explicitly say it means explicitly say it.

Unless the powers that be state this one thing ignores a rule everything else follows (sometimes even illogically/un-thematically).

payprplayn
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: Dec 25, 2014

Bigbywolfe wrote:

Does Fanatics Power say it can damage a target in a different Battle Zone? If not, then it does not explicitly say that her Power can damage a target in a different battle zone.

Explicitly say it means explicitly say it.

Unless the powers that be state this one thing ignores a rule everything else follows (sometimes even illogically/un-thematically).

It seems they have.  

MigrantP
MigrantP's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Joined: May 22, 2012

The bug with Fanatic's redirect will be fixed in the next update.


Lead Bit Flipper, Handelabra Games
Developer of Sentinels, Bottom of the 9th, and Spirit Island

payprplayn
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: Dec 25, 2014

MigrantP wrote:

The bug with Fanatic's redirect will be fixed in the next update.

Do you mean that it shouldn't work across battle zones, or only that it should trigger Aeon Master?

WalkingTarget
WalkingTarget's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Joined: May 03, 2012

payprplayn wrote:

 

MigrantP wrote:

 

The bug with Fanatic's redirect will be fixed in the next update.

 

Do you mean that it shouldn't work across battle zones, or only that it should trigger Aeon Master?

Almost assuredly that it shouldn't work across battle zones since Fanatic's abilities do not say that they work across battle zones.

MigrantP
MigrantP's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Joined: May 22, 2012

It shouldn't work across battle zones, because it doesn't say that it does. I should have this line from the rulebook permanently in my copy/paste buffer:

Cards and effects in one battle zone cannot affect or be affected by anything in the other battle zone, unless there is game text that says otherwise.


Lead Bit Flipper, Handelabra Games
Developer of Sentinels, Bottom of the 9th, and Spirit Island

RySmith6
RySmith6's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Game DesignerPlaytester
Joined: Oct 17, 2013

Hmm, We could compile a list of those cards that explicitly do say otherwise. I would imagine it's only cards from the OBV expansion.
(I'm not counting "Move X to the other battle zone" as that still technically only affects things in the battle zone the effect originated in, or "Play this in the other battle zone" as nothing in the "other" battle zone could affect the originator of the card play)

OBV's Deck (Not counting the character booklet, because literally every page):

  1. Global Devastation
  2. Source of Foes (shield)

Scions and Scion deck

  1. Aeon Master(both sides)
  2. Aeon Assault
  3. Certain Finality
  4. Relentless Hunter (since it has an affect after the move, it is commanding a card in another battle zone at that point)
  5. Terrible Burden (If OBV is in the other zone)

Mission Deck

  1. Shattering Blow
  2. Bloodsworn Exhibition
  3. The Nations in Ruins

I thiiiink that's all of them.

Bonus points to anyone who can pin down what happens when an Akash Seed is played from the environment deck in the battle zone Akash isn't in. I have the wrong idea, mostly because I've wanted Akash seeds to be played to the environment play area, which doesn't work for a number of reasons.


"But dice are dice, and Dice are Fickle"

Internet Pseudonyms: PseudonymTwitch, PseudonymTweetr, PseudonymGamer

Dandolo
Dandolo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Playtester
Joined: Nov 28, 2015

I believe regardless of which environment deck plays Akash'thriya's seed it is played in her play area and affects the battle zone she is in.

 

Also if her seeds are in an environment deck and that environment is removed from the game, her seeds seem to be removed from the game as well... I played a game yesterday where Alash survived the whole game but ended the game with only around 5 seeds in circulation.

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

That doesn’t seem like the correct behavior to me with the Seeds as that environment destruction is not worded like Deadline’s.  For OblivAeon it specifies to just remove environment cards.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Phantom5613
Phantom5613's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Playtester
Joined: Apr 24, 2013

As far as I know they're still counted as hero cards, so I think if an environment deck is destroyed they just go to Akash's deck..

Is there a line in the official rulebook of the physical edition for this?

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31