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New rulings from GenCon

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Donner
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New rulings from GenCon

Hi, guys!  We have a few new rulings from GenCon for Sentinels Tactics!

1. AoE attacks are resolved per target and not per hex.  This affects Proletariat and Legacy.  Legacy, if in an AoE along with an ally and with Heroic Interception in play, can intercept the attack to their ally and end up tking two attacks.  One for himself and one for his ally.  Proletariat's clones generated by an AoE attack and still in the blast radius do not get hit by that attack.

2. If a map location causes damage (without a roll) to a target, that damage can not be intercepted by Legacy or taken by Citizen Truth because no attack was made.  This was for the map locations in the environment that dealt a target that entered 1 damage and gave them tokens.

3.  All of a character's actions being unlimited includes their non-action abilities.  For example, Lightspeed Barrage is unlimited for Tachyon, but costs a health instead of an action.


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dpt
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Can you be more explicit on 1? I can't tell exactly what you mean with Legacy: does he take the attack twice or not? And if Proletariat already has multiple clones in a blast radius before the attack, does he get hit more than once? The "per target" phrasing makes me think no, but then you gave a more complicated example.

arenson9
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Donner wrote:

Hi, guys!  We have a few new rulings from GenCon for Sentinels Tactics!1. AoE attacks are resolved per target and not per hex.  This affects Proletariat and Legacy.  Legacy, if in an AoE along with an ally and with Heroic Interception in play, can intercept the attack to their ally and end up tking two attacks.  One for himself and one for his ally.  Proletariat's clones generated by an AoE attack and still in the blast radius do not get hit by that attack.

 

Note: It seems that the word target gets used in two related, but different ways. A target is something that _CAN_ be attacked. A target is also, however, something that _IS_BEING_ attacked. Legacy is a target because he has hit points. Legacy can also be the target of an attack. Whether or not this distinction is particularly meaningful, I'm not entirely sure, but I found it helpful to keep this in mind when thinking about these sorts of AoE attacks and what happens when targets are moved and/or created _during_ an attack.

 

I think what you're saying is that an AoE attack first determines what targets will be hit, then starts hitting them, so for Legacy, if he and an ally were both determined to be targets, then if Legacy switches places with the ally, Legacy will be attacked both because he was a target of the attack and because the ally was a target of the attack. For Proletariat, I think what you're saying is that if an AoE attack causes Proletariat to spawn a new target, it doesn't matter whether or not that new Proletariat would have been in the range of the AoE, that new Proletariat will not be attacked by the ongoing attack. If, however, there were two Proletariat targets in the original range of the AoE then both would be determined to be targets of the original attack.

 

Apologies for verbosity! So ... tired ...


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Good for prole.

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I cast SLEEP on Andy!


Just assume I'm always doing that.

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Thats a nice side buff for Pro players. Alters the way I might play him against certain comps for sure.

The Legacy interaction is not new to me at least. I thought that's how we all played it anyway?

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The Legacy interaction works the same way it has -- the reasons why it works that way were made more explicit.

 

I'd expect sometime relatively soon to see some more rules clarifications/updates, now that the 2015 Tournament season is over.

 

Are there any outstanding rules questions, or rules that are widely disagreed with? (This is me personally asking, not GtG.)

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Now that the season is over, and you can look back and see how things went, are their going to be any "balancing" changes to any of the characters? Or is everything going to remain the same going into the next expansion?


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Pydro wrote:

Now that the season is over, and you can look back and see how things went, are their going to be any "balancing" changes to any of the characters? Or is everything going to remain the same going into the next expansion?

I'd be interested to know if there are any balance changes to characters as well.

Speaking of balance, how did Tachyon fair at GenCon. Was she as dominant as she has been or has she seen a lot of ban time? Still need to catch up on the videos

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Pydro wrote:

Now that the season is over, and you can look back and see how things went, are their going to be any "balancing" changes to any of the characters? Or is everything going to remain the same going into the next expansion?

 

My personal design ethos is "no power level errata". Ultimately, the cards should do what they say. Sometimes things don't work (or don't work as intended) with the original wording, and errata clarifies things. But we totally don't want anyone to be playing Sentinel Tactics at home, go to a tournament, and be told halfway through a game "Oh yeah, Throwing Knives has 4 as an automiss now". We want everyone to be playing the same game.

 

Theoretically, if a power or character ends up being omnipresently good, I could envision a scenario where they could end up being banned from tournaments. That's not ideal, obviously, but it's way better than making the game work differently depending on who you play with. Ideally, players will find counters within the existing game to various powerful strategies. And we're certainly aware of those few strategies that don't have strong counters in the existing game, and are taking that into account when creating upcoming expansions.

 

Ultimately, the final decisions rest with Greater Than a Games, but that's where I stand on things.

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Foote wrote:

 

Pydro wrote:
Now that the season is over, and you can look back and see how things went, are their going to be any "balancing" changes to any of the characters? Or is everything going to remain the same going into the next expansion?

 

I'd be interested to know if there are any balance changes to characters as well.Speaking of balance, how did Tachyon fair at GenCon. Was she as dominant as she has been or has she seen a lot of ban time? Still need to catch up on the videos

 

Good question! I didn't see enough of the games to answer it, but I can at least say that I think she was the MVP in my team's semi-final win.


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Here are my questions/suggestions Luther:

Questions:

1.  Will tournament bans be done different in future tournaments with a bigger character selection?

2.  How will the promo version of the Operative and Ambuscase work in future tournaments?   Will a person picking one of those characters get their choice or will they not be allowed?   If they get choice then when banning characters does banning one of them ban both versions or will just one version of that character have to be picked?   

3.  What strategies have you seen that you didn't expect?  And on the flip side, what strategies haven't you seen that you expected to occur?

Suggestions

1. I feel any Proletriat target should be immune to attacks made by other Proletriat targets.   It seems counterintuitive that heroes are immune to their own attacks but Proletriat using his base power could be forced to hurt a copy of himself using an attack from Overwhelm.  I could see a situation where you might want to attack another clone but it seems like it would be pretty rare.

2.  Any attack that requires health to trigger should allow you to finish the attack before being incapped.   It seems heroic or villainous as the case may be that you spend your final health to take down an opponent knowing you go down with them.  Basically this stems to me from the fact that Tachyon can spend her last health to get another turn but heroes who get an attack off the same cost can't get any benefit. 

 

I might add more once I can get to cards.  


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lutherbellhendricksv
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Powerhound_2000 wrote:

Here are my questions/suggestions Luther:Questions:1.  Will tournament bans be done different in future tournaments with a bigger character selection?2.  How will the promo version of the Operative and Ambuscase work in future tournaments?   Will a person picking one of those characters get their choice or will they not be allowed?   If they get choice then when banning characters does banning one of them ban both versions or will just one version of that character have to be picked?   3.  What strategies have you seen that you didn't expect?  And on the flip side, what strategies haven't you seen that you expected to occur?Suggestions1. I feel any Proletriat target should be immune to attacks made by other Proletriat targets.   It seems counterintuitive that heroes are immune to their own attacks but Proletriat using his base power could be forced to hurt a copy of himself using an attack from Overwhelm.  I could see a situation where you might want to attack another clone but it seems like it would be pretty rare.2.  Any attack that requires health to trigger should allow you to finish the attack before being incapped.   It seems heroic or villainous as the case may be that you spend your final health to take down an opponent knowing you go down with them.  Basically this stems to me from the fact that Tachyon can spend her last health to get another turn but heroes who get an attack off the same cost can't get any benefit.  I might add more once I can get to cards.  

 

1) Tournament Structure is one of the most mutable things, compared to most of the game rules, since none of those rules are included with the game. It's entirely reasonable to foresee that as the number of heroes grows, teams may end up being allowed to ban more than one character each. But nothing is set in stone on that front yet.

 

2) If promo character panels are allowed in tournament (you'll just have to wait and see on that one), then the player who drafts the character will pick one panel, probably when drafting the character. If you ban the character, you ban the whole character, not "Operative B".

 

3) "Didn't expect": probably the most exciting example was the game with Ra/Unity/Dawn. Champion Bot and Luminous Leadership gave Ra and Turret Bot's hazard Attacks +3 dice each, Flame Spike triggered off hazards too with +3, and Citizen Truth made sure that ball of death didn't die to one area Attack. "Expected": I don't generally put much stock in my expectations of what "should" happen in competitive play; generally I'm trying to find what's broken so it can get fixed, not to win a tournament. :p So I don't have the right eyes to predict what strategies will be the best of what's ultimately printed. I guess Christopher mandates that the answer to this question be "Proletariat"?

 

1) Proletariat's unfortunate circumstance here is a result of how the rules worked out with respect to targets vs characters. We didn't want to say that "characters are immune to their own Attacks", because then Cryo Bot, Turret Bot, various Citizens, dinosaurs, etc end up attacking themselves. So the rule had to say "targets" instead of "characters". And since Proletariat needed to be multiple targets for many other things to work (including being attacked), this is where we ended up. It shouldn't come up too too often, but yeah, it's unfortunate when it does. With a time machine I would have added a line on his character panel somewhere making him immune to other Proletariats also, but there's no using that fix now.

 

2) This is the kind of thing I'd like to see addressed in the next rules update, either with a change in rules, or a clearer reason for the discrepancy. If you've got any more of these, anyone, please run them out there.

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lutherbellhendricksv wrote:

1) Proletariat's unfortunate circumstance here is a result of how the rules worked out with respect to targets vs characters. We didn't want to say that "characters are immune to their own Attacks", because then Cryo Bot, Turret Bot, various Citizens, dinosaurs, etc end up attacking themselves. So the rule had to say "targets" instead of "characters". And since Proletariat needed to be multiple targets for many other things to work (including being attacked), this is where we ended up. It shouldn't come up too too often, but yeah, it's unfortunate when it does. With a time machine I would have added a line on his character panel somewhere making him immune to other Proletariats also, but there's no using that fix now.

Personally, I think this is a great opportunity for Proletariat.  Each coin has two faces.  In this case, he can hit himself to create more clones (or remove excess clones so he can clone elsewhere more constructive!) and push his clones into better positions.  It may hurt a bit, but so does being in a skirmish.


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Question:

With the new AoE rule on new Proles, how does Overwhelm work when you add new proles mid overwhelm, for example when you attack another clone while overwhelm-people's hammer and a new clone comes into play, does the new clone get to use people's hammer from overwhelm?

phantaskippy
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Tachyon will be hard to balance, because she is best countered by hazard spaces, and can make herself immune to them.

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1.  For Hypersonic Assault does Tachyon have to be able to move her full move value? During the tournament I saw at least once where Hypersonic Assault was used but they moved only four spaces instead of the full five spaces that her move would have allowed 

2.  For Slip Into Shadows does the opponent have to declare and roll his dice for an attack against Wraith or do they only have to declare they are attacking the Wraith?


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phantaskippy
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I believe those have been answered before, Tachyon moves up to her full move, so she doesn't have to be able to move the full distance, and you choose to sprint before dice are rolled or even an Aim is used.

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That's not what I saw on the streaming sessions this weekend which is what brought those to mind when I looked through the cards.  


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Donner
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phantaskippy wrote:

Question:With the new AoE rule on new Proles, how does Overwhelm work when you add new proles mid overwhelm, for example when you attack another clone while overwhelm-people's hammer and a new clone comes into play, does the new clone get to use people's hammer from overwhelm?

I believe this has been answered before.  The new Proletariats don't get to use the Overwhelm action since they weren't there when it was triggered.


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phantaskippy wrote:
when you attack another clone while overwhelm-people's hammer and a new clone comes into play, does the new clone get to use people's hammer from overwhelm?

I'm not official, but unless the wording on Overwhelm is an exception, I'm going to say definitely not. Like attacks, you declare targets and then the action is carried out based on those targets.


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Donner
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PeterCHayward wrote:

 

phantaskippy wrote:
when you attack another clone while overwhelm-people's hammer and a new clone comes into play, does the new clone get to use people's hammer from overwhelm?

 

I'm not official, but unless the wording on Overwhelm is an exception, I'm going to say definitely not. Like attacks, you declare targets and then the action is carried out based on those targets.

Much better stated than what I said.  Thanks!


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phantaskippy wrote:

Tachyon will be hard to balance, because she is best countered by hazard spaces, and can make herself immune to them.

to completely rez a months old post, she can be immune to them, but she can't hit you if she can't get behind you =] We had an un-cast match at worlds where Ra and turret bot were making our position very uninviting, but Tachyon couldn't use Hypersonic assault to hit us, as we were stacked to the back edge of the map.

I'm also of the persuasion that she's best countered by ignoring her, as if you've survived her initial assault, you've generally rendered her inept until you want to make her your team's third point. Otherwise she's giving your team two points, if she incaps herself on purpose. Sometimes potent, yes, but dice are a fickle mistress.


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