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Hey, everyone. What can I do for you?

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Christopher
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Hey, everyone. What can I do for you?

Thanks for sticking with us. We've been so busy, and it just gets more and more so all the time. But I am once again around and online, and eager to be a feature of the forum once again. Not sure where the best place to post this thread was, so I just tossed it in here. 

So, this is a great place to let me know what I can do and what we can do to make this place the best it can be for you. We're working on making a new site (have been for months and months and months!) but that'll always be a lower priority than making games, as we're game people more than we are website people. But! Until we do someday get that new website, we can still make sure that this place is a worthwhile spot for all of you and all of us! So, speak up, let me know, and know that you will be heard.

Oh, and thanks for always saving the Multiverse. It seems to get into so much trouble. It's great to have you all around to take care of it.

-Christopher

 


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Matchstickman
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I don't know if this is appropriate but you can "do for me" a new Kickstarter update. Some people thought this month's was lacking because you all weren't here and it was said another one was oging to be posted you got back, it's almost the end of the month so I don't know if it's worth it but it might mollify some people.


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Also, cupcakes.


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Christopher
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Cupcakes aside, is it better to throw together a Kickstarter update next week that is missing info that we're supposed to get from China by the end of the month, or wait until the regularly scheduled update that will happen the first week of April?

Genuinely curious - I don't know that another update saying, "We're still waiting to hear back on a couple things" is going to make any feel any better, regardless of how true it is.

But I am trying to do a better job of both listening AND talking here, so if it'll help, I'll gladly say as much.


"Your goodness must have some edge to it — else it is none."
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No matter how much information you have, personally I feel it is always better to be thorough. I think a lot of people would appreciate an update that said something like, "Hey guys. We are waiting on this and this from these people, and we'll let you know when we hear from them." When there isn't an update, people slowly get their hopes up that there is good news, and if there isn't, then they have higher to fall.

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In general, I support waiting until you have full details before explaining what's going wrong.  But if you are going to miss a deadline, I'd much prefer to hear about it before the deadline than after, even if the before message is "We're going to be late, and we're still figuring out why.  In a month we'll be able to tell you what went wrong."

 

I, personally, am very curious about the redesign that delayed Spirit Island. The way it was described made it sound like a fairly sweeping change, but it couldn't have required significant playtesting, which puts me at a bit of a loss as to what it could have been.

 

Also, I think that you guys need to get Craig (or whomever is doing the Kickstarter updates) a new cell phone data plan, as his apparently can't support more than seven pictures.

Spirit Island Kickstarter, December update wrote:
Hey, everyone!

 

It's the first Tuesday of the month, and you know what that means!

There's been a really huge development. The factory is getting us samples! Apparently we really shocked them with the scope of this project, and they've been scrambling to get something great put together.

So we should should be receiving those here in the office soon. As soon as we get them, I'll take so many pictures to show you that it'll require a "you might not want to do this on your cell phone data plan" warning.

 

More seriously, while I know that there is no way to make the delays go faster without compromising quality, and it wouldn't be practical to add more content like you did to OblivAeon, the one way you could apologize would be to post more content previews.  You never did do more than a paragraph on Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares, Shadows Flicker like Flames, Surge of Rampant Growth, or Thunderspeaker.

One of the main selling points of Spirit Island (to me, at least) is the beautiful art, but the last time any image with a color other than white, brown, or gray was added to the Kickstarter page was 10 days short of half a year ago.


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I only ever want one thing from you, Christopher, and that's for you to talk about Prime War some more =)


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Christopher
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I, personally, am very curious about the redesign that delayed Spirit Island. The way it was described made it sound like a fairly sweeping change, but it couldn't have required significant playtesting, which puts me at a bit of a loss as to what it could have been.

It wasn't a game function redesign so much as it was a card layout and wording rework. I have a "specificity of language" penchant that I realized was not applied to Spirit Island game text, so we had to take a step back and figure out what the format of card wording should be, and then reapply it across the board. Also, there were a bunch of icons that needing updating.

You never did do more than a paragraph on Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares, Shadows Flicker like Flames, Surge of Rampant Growth, or Thunderspeaker.

One of the main selling points of Spirit Island (to me, at least) is the beautiful art, but the last time any image with a color other than white, brown, or gray was added to the Kickstarter page was 10 days short of half a year ago.

Very fair points. Those things are out of my hands, but my hands can poke the people who can post such things! I'll send some messages now to make sure that the Spirit Island update for the first week of April is more robust.

I only ever want one thing from you, Christopher, and that's for you to talk about Prime War some more =)

I definitely need to do a big Prime War post some time soon. Just need to be in the right place for it. But it will happen! It's been more and more on my mind lately.  C:

 

 


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I'll come in to say that I think things have gotten way more interesting here now that The Letters Page is happening. Thanks for telling your stories, and keep it up!

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Hmm, maybe Eric could be prevailed on to do another of those introduction posts for one of the spirits for Spirit Island mentioned above? That would add a bunch of color.

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I know this kind of thing is low on the "To Do" list for you guys since you've got so many cakes in the oven so to speak, but I was just wondering if anything was being done for those of us who sent in e-mails refering to the problems some of us had with the Foil Hero packs. I know I personally had a few problems with my item when it arrived and so I sent in an e-mail to you guys, but I haven't heard anything back...

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Whoa! OH no! If you've had problems with the Foil Hero Cards, you DEFINITELY should have heard back from us by now!

Shoot an e-mail to Craig, Paul, and I - just to make sure we get it. Craig@greaterthangames.com, Paul@greaterthangames.com, and Christopher@greaterthangames.com.

I'm very sorry to hear that you hear back from us on that yet.


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As to Kickstarter updates, I'm one of those people who would much rather get an update that says "we have no real news, but we're still working on it and we're not dead," than no update at all.

Lack of communication is my biggest bugbear with KS projects in general.I just want to know what's going on and that the creator still cares about it and hasn't just swanned off to the Bahamas with my hard-earned pledge money. Seriously, even knowing that there's nothing to tell makes me so much happier about the whole thing.

I also like estimates of when I will get my stuff, even if those estimates are revised a hundred times. I don't mind at all if something's late as long as I know why, what you're doing about it, and have a rough idea how long it might take.

Just let me know you haven't forgotten me, right?


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I get that. It's a fair point. We definitely haven't run off with anyone's money, but I totally understand wanting to know what's going on.

I don't want you to have a big bugbear. He's mean.


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I am a scare.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

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The "1st Tuesday of the month, rain or shine" updates are pretty good, as far as regular communication goes.  Barring Gencon, and the one time when the update didn't post properly, and it wasn't noticed until it was pointed out.  Which does bring up one thing - while the monthly updates are great, the impression I get from the Spirit Island kickstarter page is that those updates are the only attention paid to the page.  Since the start of 2017 there have been 17 posts in the main comment stream.  6 of those are questions aimed at you guys, and only one response was ever made.  One of the questions could have recieved a personal reponse, but the lack of a public acknowledgement lends itself to the general air of neglect.  I obviously don't expect you to be checking the thread every day, especially considering how slow it is.  But, well, look through the comments from mid last year onwards, and picture what they look like to a nervous backer.


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Christopher wrote:

Cupcakes aside, is it better to throw together a Kickstarter update next week that is missing info that we're supposed to get from China by the end of the month, or wait until the regularly scheduled update that will happen the first week of April?Genuinely curious - I don't know that another update saying, "We're still waiting to hear back on a couple things" is going to make any feel any better, regardless of how true it is.But I am trying to do a better job of both listening AND talking here, so if it'll help, I'll gladly say as much.

To be blunt, When an update was made saying there was going to be an update in the middle of the month, I much rather have an update saying hey we are waiting to hear back from China and we have to delay the promise update until April than no response at all. Some people may disagree in the comments on kickstarter but lack of communication is more frustrating than a quick status update. I feel better after reading your post than I have all week.

 

Also I agree with a couple above posts. An update on Prime war would be great.


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Christopher
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Good to know. And Arcanist Lupus, that's a very good point about Kickstarter comments. It may surprise you to learn that I'm not in charge of the day-to-day comments and messages on Kickstarter, but I will talk with those involved in those and figure out a good way to make sure that they're getting regular attention, even if that means it does have to go back to being my job.


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In relation to Kickstarter updates: I feel like there's content you guys could be showing off in some of the monthly Kickstarter updates for those filler months where you don't have as much news to talk about.

Apologies for the hyperbole, but the last two months of updates effectively amounted to "Hey guys, we're waiting for Chinese New Year to wrap up, so nothing to talk about this month," followed by, "Hey guys, most of us are out of town, so nothing to talk about this month." 

For example, with OblivAeon, you could probably show off a card or two from hero decks (even with a conditional that these are not necessarily final) to give a sampling on how they'll play and what you were trying to get to. If you did one or two heroes a month, that would give you six months of content and give people something to look forward to each month. Compare this to Peter C's Designer Diaries on Dracula's Feast for what I'm trying to get at.

 

All that aside, seeing you actively participating on the forums again is a GREAT start, and glad to have you around again. :)

 

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bobbertoriley wrote:

[...] For example, with OblivAeon, you could probably show off a card or two from hero decks (even with a conditional that these are not necessarily final) to give a sampling on how they'll play and what you were trying to get to. If you did one or two heroes a month, that would give you six months of content and give people something to look forward to each month. [...]

I think this, and possibly an update on the collector case. 

Show something visual, with colours, that non-playtesters (and maybe even playtesters) have yet to see. 


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Christopher wrote:

Whoa! OH no! If you've had problems with the Foil Hero Cards, you DEFINITELY should have heard back from us by now!Shoot an e-mail to Craig, Paul, and I - just to make sure we get it. Craig@greaterthangames.com, Paul@greaterthangames.com, and Christopher@greaterthangames.com.I'm very sorry to hear that you hear back from us on that yet.

Ah, will do! Once I'm off of work and home, I'll write something up and send it off to each of those addresses. Thanks for taking the time to pop in and lend an ear, Christopher. :)

Oh, and thanks to you and Adam again for such a great podcast! I love all the backstory and lore you guys give us. Personal favorites so far have been the Expat and Baron Blade episodes. And just thanks in general to all you guys from GtG for just being you guys. :)

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Only thing I'd ask Christopher is that you keep up with the engagement of us on the forums.   Even if it is just an occasional Smoke Bombs comment.  


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Agreed with all that when you say, "We'll have an update by X," you need to at least acknowledge when X arrives that you're not ready for an update.

Another technique you can use, which Reaper minis does to good effect, is to get a bunch of tiny reveals ready to go.  For instance, each month, show off maybe one hero card, one villain card, and one environment card.  It doesn't have to be final copy, and in fact sometimes it can be exciting to see early work and insight into the development process.  You could even show off a piece of concept art, a humorous development anecdote, etc.  Do the same whenever you set an extra deadline for yourself, even if the actual content of said update is, "Nothing to report."  It's a small thing, but it can do wonders for contributors' support and enthusiasm for the product.


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Can you get forum editing to be reliable?


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Can you get forum editing to be reliable?

[Swear words], I wish. 

That is not a thing in my power. I can write games and write words.

I appreciate all the input from everyone. Looking forward to writing tomorrow's Kickstarter update.


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Christopher wrote:

Can you get forum editing to be reliable?

[Swear words], I wish. That is not a thing in my power. I can write games and write words.

No offense, but... it is in your power to hire or direct someone in whose power it is.  It's probably just some caching bugaboo that's easier to fix than it is to actually locate and identify.

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No offense, but... it is in your power to hire or direct someone in whose power it is.  It's probably just some caching bugaboo that's easier to fix than it is to actually locate and identify.

If I had spare time/money to hire a person to take care of the website better, you can bet I would. We pay the payroll for all of our nine full time people, as well as paying for contractors like other designers, artists, etc. We have Joel doing website things, but we're also working on a major website overhaul that's been a long time coming. So, we can spend time and money chasing down minute website issues, or we can just have an entirely reworked website when that's an option.

For me, my priority is doing what is unique to me: making Sentinels games. And other, non-Sentinels things, too. So, I feel like I can fairly say that I wish I had forum editing capabilities and that if it were a thing I could fix, I would.


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Is it possible we can get a glimpse, or update on the comic book?

I haven't heard anything since the announcement! 


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UXM266 wrote:

Is it possible we can get a glimpse, or update on the comic book?

I haven't heard anything since the announcement! 

For anyone joining the party late, UXM266 is referencing the $100,000 stretch goal on the OblivAeon / Ultimate Collector's Case Kickstarter. 


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That's definitely happening! Actually, Adam and I worked on it all yesterday afternoon after Letters Paging. Good stuff happening there. Lots of cool story things. It's the big reason that the new environment decks made their way into OblivAeon!

I'll put comic stuff into the May Kickstarter update. We'll have exciting things to show by then.


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Christopher wrote:

That's definitely happening! Actually, Adam and I worked on it all yesterday afternoon after Letters Paging. Good stuff happening there. Lots of cool story things. It's the big reason that the new environment decks made their way into OblivAeon!I'll put comic stuff into the May Kickstarter update. We'll have exciting things to show by then.

Thanks! Looking forward to it, and to next week's update!


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Very solid Kickstarter update, thanks for following through.

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My pleasure! Looking forward to next Tuesday, too! Hopefully fewer vitriolic comments next time, but we'll see!


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Less vitriol in Kickstarter comments?  Next you'll want more inteligence in poitical discussion.

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I'm just impressed/surprised when the comments on Reddit are kinder and generally more positive than the Kickstarter comments.

Not that the Kickstarter comments are all bad. They're largely great! But there have been a notable few exceptions.


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Christopher wrote:

I'm just impressed/surprised when the comments on Reddit are kinder and generally more positive than the Kickstarter comments.Not that the Kickstarter comments are all bad. They're largely great! But there have been a notable few exceptions.

Maybe it's because the people on Reddit are also on the forum, while the ones n kickstarter don't spend time here? It could be that they don't get as much info, and so are left out of the loop.


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Kickstart comments are from people who definitely spent money on the project, comments where money is involved are always more critical.


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People need to stop thinking that Kickstarter is anything other than an investment platform, rather than a store front.


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lynkfox wrote:

People need to stop thinking that Kickstarter is anything other than an investment platform, rather than a store front.

Even as an investment platform, paying your money then experiencing uncomfortable amounts of radio silences is aggravating, you have to admit.


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Spiff wrote:

 

lynkfox wrote:
People need to stop thinking that Kickstarter is anything other than an investment platform, rather than a store front.

 

Even as an investment platform, paying your money then experiencing uncomfortable amounts of radio silences is aggravating, you have to admit.

 

I can admit that some may see it as aggravating, but perhaps I have a different world view on such things - 1-2 months with little information is acceptable as an investment situation - I expect that if I trust a company enough to give it my money that they are working diligently even if I do not actively see such work. I am fine if I get an update every quarter. That makes sense to me, and an update of 'Still working on this' is completely acceptable.

 

I may simply be a more patient person when it comes to such things however.


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You could tell me which kind of steak you'd prefer me to bring to the BYOS at GenCon

(Although I doubt I'll be able to go crying)


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I've read only a few of the comments over at KS, and I can agree that they're way more more...critical than they need to be.

It's not like everyone at GTG is just twiddling their thumbs in their offices, waiting for a new test box.

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Yeah, things were definitely a bit toxic. I've noticed that as a trend on Kickstarter in general. I'm backing a CMON one currently as well and folk complain about one thing, so the developers fix it, and then they complain that the problem was fixed. Lol

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neoadvent89 wrote:

Yeah, things were definitely a bit toxic. I've noticed that as a trend on Kickstarter in general. I'm backing a CMON one currently as well and folk complain about one thing, so the developers fix it, and then they complain that the problem was fixed. Lol


How do you complain about a problem being fixed?

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Because some people like the problem. They considered it a feature. You can never make everyone happy or even close to anyone happy. Someone will be pissed off, because it's not what THEY want despite being a good change. 


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Counting down until a mod buds this conversation off...

3


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Well I would but I'm on my phone so....

2


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Remind Paul that we miss the monthly state of GTG posts


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Remind Paul that we miss him in general, too. :)

dpt
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Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Playtester
Joined: Aug 06, 2013

I also love the State of the GtG posts! Not so much for the Kickstarter campaigns, but for the other stuff. For instance, I've got a pre-order for the Viva Java reprint that I'm eagerly looking forward to.

Hankroyd
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Last seen: 2 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: Mar 28, 2017

Hi Christopher.

 

I'm late to the party ... I didn't have an account here and when I tried to create one the validation link went directly to my spam. And I just found it now.

I guess it's better this way: I will talk only about OblivAeon. So my comment will be a lot less harsher than it would have been if I posted it before the "New Sheriff" made his update.

 

I posted my fair share of vitriolic comments on the OblivAeon KS. It was my only way to show my bitterness and disapointment. After a while reading "A lot of stuff is happening, will tell you about it next month, support the **Some other product** KS." each month ... well after a while it loses credibility.

The March one was especially insulting. Escpecially since all other project from Gtg get a complete update (A day later but an actual update with picture and everything.). I had the feeling that you don't care anymore. I don't forget the positive (like the doudle Fedex to send previous expansions) but the lack of news could means for me only two things : The production of OblivAeon went very very very badly AND/OR yoou really really really sucked at communication.

The mid-month came and went ... No update. Another let down.

 

But that was before ... You gave FINALLY a correct update. An honest one. And apparently will do the same tomorrow, with production stories. The news about the box wasn't that good, but hey. C'est la vie. I though you were scammed and the chinese compagny never send you a product. Now we know what really happened and it's great to know. We got some preview, a deadline, and at least someone took time to read our comments and answer it !

It won't change the past: Previous communication were so bad, that I though I will have to pass on the RPG and Sentinels of Earth Prime. Now I won't say I'll blindly put my money in it, but there is a good chance it will.

I hope that for the next month the update of OblivAeon will reach the same level as the last one. Show us the backstage, the previews, the cool stories. Show us the bad things too, if in the future you see you can't hold the deadline, don't wait the last moment to tell us. We are (mostly) grown-ups, we prefer a good explanation instead of a bad silence.

 

Make the first tuesday of each month the best day of the month for SotM fans until the release of the game. That's all that I ask.

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