The forums moved on March 1, 2021. Please read this page for more information.

GTG Project Status Update - December 2015

94 posts / 0 new
Last post
Paul
Paul's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Admin
Joined: Jul 27, 2011
GTG Project Status Update - December 2015

Completed Since Last Update

1) Bottom of the Ninth shipping.

Finished by Printer; In GTG Warehouse

1) Villains of the Multiverse and associated mini-expansions

2) New set of Oversized Villain Cards

3Isle of Trains, Diner, and Brew Crafters: The Travel Card Game reprints

4) Wager Master reprint

5) Compounded reprint

We have begun the massive task of shipping out all of the preorders associated with this! It will probably take 3-5 weeks to get everything out, especially with Christmas and New Years in there. Here is the ship order:

a) Backordered Oversized Villain Cards

b) US Preorder Backers

c) All Canadian Preorderers

d) All EU Preorderers

e) All other International Preorderers

f) US late preorderes (from Gen Con, etc)

At the Printer; About to be Loaded

1) SotM: Core Game and Miss Information reprints

Completed by GTG; At the Printer

1) Rook City & Infernal Relics and Vengeance reprints

2) New Bedford and Nantucket

In the Final Graphic Design stage at GTG; to Printer in ~60 Days

1Great Heartland Hauling reprint

2) Spirit Island

Current Game Developtment Focus by GTG

1) Sentinel Tactics: Battle for Broken City and For Profit

2) Sentinel Comics: The Role Playing Game

3) Various Dice Hate Me Games properties


“Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” ~Obi-Wan Kenobi

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

Thanks for the update Paul.  Looking forward to VotM and the Oversized Villain Cards. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
morph147
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: Jan 22, 2015

Paul, I have some traveling issues over the next couple weeks. As a us preorder can you give me a rough idea when u think those will go out so I can plan accordingly 


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

Matchstickman
Matchstickman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
Playtester
Joined: Apr 10, 2012

So not non-US shipped first to "make up for" the Wrath shipping? Huh.


Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all

Temporary image until an H emoticon is added!

PlatinumWarlock
PlatinumWarlock's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 week ago
Joined: Feb 10, 2013

Just got a shipping notification from FedEx regarding a GtG package.  Considering that I didn't order anything during the holiday sale, I'm going to assume that this is my VotM pre-order...

...which makes me a very happy warlock, indeed.  :D

Estelindis
Estelindis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Playtester
Joined: Apr 18, 2014

Paul wrote:

Here is the ship order:

a) Backordered Oversized Villain Cards

b) US Preorder Backers

c) All Canadian Preorderers

d) All EU Preorderers

e) All other International Preorderers

f) US late preorderes (from Gen Con, etc)

Matchstickman wrote:
  So not non-US shipped first to "make up for" the Wrath shipping? Huh.
Indeed.  GtG clearly stated they were going to give EU shipping preferential treatment this time, to make up for how long EU shipping took for the Wrath of the Cosmos pre-orders.  I mean, EU customers were taking quite a leap of faith signing up for the Villains pre-order, given that we'd already paid for but hadn't yet received our goods from the previous pre-order.  We would've received our items earlier if we hadn't pre-ordered at all but bought them through local retailers.  I like to believe GtG made the promise sincerely, so perhaps Paul made a mistake in his post?  Could we get some clarification on that, please?   On a related topic, supposedly everyone was to have all the items from the "2015" pre-orders during, well, 2015:  
Quote:
The games will all be in your hands by the end of 2015, though they will be produced in separate waves.
  We were promised that even those ordering all products in a single shipping wave would have them by the end of 2015.  But, in actual fact, it looks like even though who paid extra to have the first products arrive as soon as they're ready will not have even the first shipment by the end of 2015.  (This is assuming that GtG do send out EU pre-orders first, as they said they would.  Maybe, if they actually send out US orders first, as per Paul's post, some US customers will receive some items before the end of 2015.)   Greater than Games is easily my favourite games company, full of absolutely lovely people, so I dislike making a complaint.  The thing is, though, I now have a point of comparison that makes me question whether a better way of doing things might be possible.  Earlier this year I backed the Norsaga Kickstarter by Meromorph Games (the same folks who brought us the free, unofficial Cauldron expansion for Sentinels).  This was their first ever Kickstarter.  They delivered it early in many cases (including mine), and on-time in nearly all the rest.  They had unexpected delays during the fulfilment process, but they budgeted for that, so they still managed to get their product out on time (for the most part).  I had become so used to delays in Kickstarters and pre-orders that I didn't even think being on time was practically possible for any company, but I guess it is!  For the record, I don't mind things taking a long time.  Quality products often do.  But I would prefer if GtG told us accurately from the start how long we'll be waiting for our purchases, even if that means giving an initial estimate that's several months longer.  I could be completely wrong, but I get the feeling that the early estimates they tend to give us are fuelled by enthusiasm and positivity.  It's just that, by the time fulfilment comes around, what actually generates enthusiasm and positivity is getting things on time.  As far as I understand, we only have one more SotM pre-order to go after the Villains campaign, but maybe there'll be several more Tactics releases after Broken City, so I don't think it's a wasted suggestion to ask that GtG gives themselves way more time to do everything than they think they could possibly need, and then some.  Surely it'd be less stressful for both them and us?
Mezike
Mezike's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: Nov 18, 2012

I don't understand why they don't get international orders out first every time, doesn't it make sense for as many poeple as possible to get their stuff at roughly the same time? The cart before horse way that it's usually done at >G just means that the US get all their stuff quickly and weeks later it starts to appear in the rest of the world (and usually after retailers are stocking and selling it too). I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't even get shipped first at the one time they promised they would do so, but whatever, I'll still be enjoying this when it turns up in a few weeks time.

morph147
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: Jan 22, 2015

Playing Gloomweaver advocate here: I thought they shipped first to Europe for one of the earlier preorders in the year. Can't remember if it was the tactic maps or bottom of the ninth. If so based off the link Estelindis posted it never said a sentinels of the multiverse preorder, just the next preorder Gtg did.

Plus knowing the postal service in America at this time of year, sending something to Europe will probably get there faster than sending something to someone 5 blocks away (capitalism at its finest) so there could be a reason.

Will agree though, EU backers deserve clarification on this part. 


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

Amnachaidh
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Playtester
Joined: Jan 11, 2013

Speaking as an interested but unbothered participant, I'm perfectly comfortable with European orders being served first. I mean a few weeks or months late is nothing compared to Space Command (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/58936338/space-command/description).

Thank you for the update. It's good to know where orders stand.


Can I say somethin' about destiny? Screw destiny!.... 'Cause destiny is just another word for inevitable, and nothing's inevitable as long as you stand up, look it in the eye, and say, "You're evitable!" Fred Burkle

jffdougan
jffdougan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Playtester
Joined: Oct 09, 2013

Any chance that Villains, etc. will end up being able to participate in the holiday sale since they're in now?  (Based on previous comments, I doubt it, but I'm hoping that things arriving earlier than anticipated might change that. I'd be happy to place the order and accept the delay in shipping - I can afford it now, but couldn't when the preorder(s) were happening.)

Estelindis
Estelindis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Playtester
Joined: Apr 18, 2014

morph147 wrote:

Playing Gloomweaver advocate here: I thought they shipped first to Europe for one of the earlier preorders in the year. Can't remember if it was the tactic maps or bottom of the ninth. If so based off the link Estelindis posted it never said a sentinels of the multiverse preorder, just the next preorder Gtg did.

You know what, you're right.  There was something niggling in the back of my mind that I couldn't put a finger on, a sense that some extra scenario was involved that I was forgetting, and that was it.  The original promise was made at a time when the Villains pre-order was opening and we in Europe still didn't have our stuff from the Wrath pre-order, so at the time I assumed the promise would apply to Villains.  Then when they said how they'd handle the maps, my "memory" that the promise was going to apply to Villains didn't fade or get replaced.  I must say, that while I was very happy to get my maps, so doing things that way benefitted me, I tend to think that not everyone who plays SotM plays Tactics, so the most likely way to "repay" the European customers whose Wrath copies were delayed would have been to ship Villains items first and not bother with doing it for the maps.  But hey.

Sorry for making an incorrect criticism, thanks for the information, and happy Christmas.

Pydro
Pydro's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 17 hours ago
ModeratorPlaytester
Joined: May 19, 2012

Mezike wrote:

I don't understand why they don't get international orders out first every time, doesn't it make sense for as many poeple as possible to get their stuff at roughly the same time? The cart before horse way that it's usually done at >G just means that the US get all their stuff quickly and weeks later it starts to appear in the rest of the world (and usually after retailers are stocking and selling it too). I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't even get shipped first at the one time they promised they would do so, but whatever, I'll still be enjoying this when it turns up in a few weeks time.

I could be misremembering, but I don't think it is as simple as that. For EU orders, in order to save on fees, they ship all EU orders at once to someone who then distributes them. This means that as they are making the orders they need a place to keep everything until every order is done and they can ship out together. Unlike US orders, where they can just ship them as soon as they are done and start clearing away some room to make things easier.


Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"

waedens
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 12 months ago
Playtester
Joined: Dec 01, 2012

I believe Pydro is correct. As someone who has to ship items on a daily basis I can tell you shipping to Europe is outrageously expensive. So we bundle our shipments and only ship to the EU on Fridays vs America where we ship everyday. We don't do this to save money for our company. We do it because it saves a substantial amount of money for our customers. Yes, believe it or not we pass that savings along. I believe that GTG is trying to do the same thing for their customers.

jmichaelspencer
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 days ago
Joined: Sep 02, 2015

This is a really unfortunate update for those who believed the "will be in your hands by the end of 2015", which seems to only have been true if it was addressed to the GTG warehouse staff. Especially upsetting is the positioning of "late" pre-order customers, who had no indication when ordering that they were "late", that there had been a previous wave of preorders, or that they would be put so far behind other US preorders that based on this post they may not get their preorders until early February (based on the 5-week estimate). I sincerely hope that we don't see VotM on store shelves before it gets to people who preordered based on being "late" US preorders.

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

They give the best estimates that they can.  Unfortunately, there are parts of this that GtG has no ability to control which is how long the printer takes and then getting the product to their warehouse.  Considering that it was supposed to ship to them almost at the beginning of November but didn't actually happen until almost the end of that month greatly impacted getting this out.  Since EU preorders likely include stores you will probably see this on shelves at the same as you get them.  However, you would not get any promos or the mini expansions without paying extra for them in addition to VotM. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
McBehrer
McBehrer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Playtester
Joined: May 15, 2012

They never said "you WILL have this by the end of 2015." They said "we hope to to ship this by the end of 2015."

 

They're doing what they can. Give them a break.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Ronway
Ronway's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 2 weeks ago
PlaytesterTruth Seeker
Joined: Aug 02, 2011

McBehrer wrote:

They never said "you WILL have this by the end of 2015." They said "we hope to to ship this by the end of 2015." 

Actually...

Craig wrote:

The games will all be in your hands by the end of 2015

 

 

 

Donner
Donner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 days ago
Playtester
Joined: Mar 30, 2013

Ronway wrote:
Craig wrote:

There's your problem right there!  Isn't Craig an EVIL forum overlord?


"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett

Silverleaf
Silverleaf's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
PlaytesterBolster Allies
Joined: Apr 10, 2013

I can totally forgive things being late if communication is good and we're kept updated.

Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening recently.

"Sorry guys, we expected shipments this week but they aren't here yet. We'll let you know when they arrive." would be better than only telling us what's going on when a bunch of people ask what's going on.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

jffdougan
jffdougan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 2 weeks ago
Playtester
Joined: Oct 09, 2013

Silverleaf wrote:

I can totally forgive things being late if communication is good and we're kept updated.Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening recently."Sorry guys, we expected shipments this week but they aren't here yet. We'll let you know when they arrive." would be better than only telling us what's going on when a bunch of people ask what's going on.

I concur with that. I think we're seeing some evidence of growing pains resulting from the GtG/DHMG merger.

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

I'm fine with the updates we have gotten so far.   Really since about September it has been at the printer and they were waiting for it to come.   I will grant you that I think some projects been slowed down getting to the printer because of the merger with DHMG but I don't think the communication on VotM has been any different compared to other projects. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Silverleaf
Silverleaf's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
PlaytesterBolster Allies
Joined: Apr 10, 2013

I think the communication's been getting steadily worse for a while now, since before the DHMG merger.

I assume it's a result of the increasing number of games in the stable taking up time, but really, how long does it really take to post a short update every few weeks or so? (Especially a "nothing's changed" update...)


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

The only updates I would like to see more of is the preview/teaser information.  Otherwise what I've seen presented is fine.


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
phantaskippy
phantaskippy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 4 weeks ago
Playtester
Joined: Jan 26, 2013

A lot of the time they might not have this information.

Like things being on a boat going through customs, that means you don't have any information on when it will arrive, you can't update an arrival time because you don't know.

The communication has been less since they started doing a lot more conventions and since the games started overlapping.

I remember a lot of people saying they didn't care as much about communication, they wanted them working on games.  Now that they are doing that we want the communication.

 

Silverleaf
Silverleaf's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
PlaytesterBolster Allies
Joined: Apr 10, 2013

Well I would still rather have an update that says "nothing new to tell" than radio silence.

There have been quite a few "what's going on with X?" threads recently so I can't be the only one...


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

There hasn't been total silence from GtG on providing updates.  It may not be occurring as frequently as some people may like but there have been updates posted.  I personally don't want updates every other week when there really isn't any news.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
bluedarky
bluedarky's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: Apr 12, 2014

Silverleaf wrote:

Well I would still rather have an update that says "nothing new to tell" than radio silence.There have been quite a few "what's going on with X?" threads recently so I can't be the only one...

But if they post "Nothing new" every few weeks there will be another subset of the community asking why are they wasting their time posting that's there's no new info when they should be working on the new games, so why waste the time posting that there's no new information when they're going to get people complaining either way?

morph147
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: Jan 22, 2015

They have been posting once a month or 2 updates. Been good enough for me just to keep track. I would argue this isn't radio silence. The only concern I have is I wish they would have made a tweet or something that villains was starting to move. I miss the days where they took a pic of the truck when it showed up and we all cheered


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

TheSoundOfTrees
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 11 months ago
Joined: Sep 29, 2012

The communication seems fine to me.

I just hope that I won't have to wait as long as last year while reading everyday how other players are having fun with it - including those who didn't preorder and had the game cheaper and faster at the store 10 minutes away from my home. I knew it was probable when I pre-ordered. But I am a little disapointed anyway.

With a litle luck, Villains will be home before the next preorder begins. I like GtG a lot, but I don't trust them for delivering on time (or cheap) for us foreigners. Even the bests have flaws.


Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman

waedens
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 12 months ago
Playtester
Joined: Dec 01, 2012

My only complaint would not be about communication it would be that they consistently miss the holidays with their major releases. It was nice that they had a sale and had some promo cards, but the real meat of the new products need to be on the shelves before Thanksgiving in order for holiday buyers to make purchases. I shudder to think about the business that they have missed out on over the past few years. 

jmichaelspencer
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 days ago
Joined: Sep 02, 2015

bluedarky wrote:

 

Silverleaf wrote:
Well I would still rather have an update that says "nothing new to tell" than radio silence.There have been quite a few "what's going on with X?" threads recently so I can't be the only one...

 

But if they post "Nothing new" every few weeks there will be another subset of the community asking why are they wasting their time posting that's there's no new info when they should be working on the new games, so why waste the time posting that there's no new information when they're going to get people complaining either way?

Because it's reasonable for people to expect communication, even a "no update", and to complain when they're not communicated with. Lack of communication is a consumer issue, and one which consumers are within their rights to complain about. Consumers are entitled to updates when a timeline is extended beyond what was originally promised.

It is not reasonable for people to complain that they're taking 5 minutes to post a "no update" update when they "should" be working on games. Allocation of creative resources is not a consumer issue, and one which consumers are entirely unreasonable to complain about. This is similar to people who complain about authors going to cons instead of writing whatever book their fans have been "waiting forever!!!" for.

Let's not equate the two and say "well people are going to complain either way." Either they won't communicate, and they'll get entirely justified consumer complaints that they're not communicating, or they will communicate, and they'll get people whining because they think that every second not spent posting is "working on games" (these people do not know how game design/production/marketing work). They two are not the same.

There are obviously people for whom the lack of communication is fine. Several of them have posted here. Unfortunately, these people seem to think that because it's fine for them, it is acceptable for everyone. What would be easier? Those people skipping over posts with updates they don't care about? Or those of us who DO expect better communication from a company to somehow read their minds and know what's going on because no update has been posted?

Ronway
Ronway's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 2 weeks ago
PlaytesterTruth Seeker
Joined: Aug 02, 2011

Ooo! Look at what they posted! https://greaterthangames.com/content/villains-of-the-multiverse-is-shipping

It looks so beautiful!

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

I've seen it in the past with KS where when there are updates saying no progress that people get angry.  I've seen the other end of this where they do only post updates when they have something significant and people get angry because of the silence.  In this case I feel Paul has hit a bit of a middle ground with his updates because some of the statuses don't really change but he isn't bombarding us with a bunch of updates saying nothing has happened.  However, there are still complaints so this didn't even hit a middle ground.   From viewing the forums here and elsewhere the complaints have been growing mostly this month so I imagine anxiousness to get this is reaching a high or patience waiting on this has started to wear out.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
UXM266
UXM266's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
PlaytesterUnique Capabilities
Joined: Apr 29, 2012

I think we should just take it easy. They have not lied or deceived us. It's a little late than they promised. But not by much. These things happen. Sometimes products are delayed, whether it is holiday issues, other products needing more work, shipping issues, or even personal reasons. 

As Powerhound has said, we have been just itching for some more SotM, and the complaints, and pessimism is probably stemming from that. It's sad that we can't enjoy it now, but it's not the end of the world, and at least we know we ARE getting it. When we do get it, it will be one of, if not THE best way to begin our year.

So, though I would have also preferred a little more communication, I don't hold it against the, and I won't let it sully my view of this company, the game, or the forumites. Well except that one forumite.... I'm kidding, I like you all.

 


I THOUGHT I was the the last Scion but it's actually .....

Killswitch
Killswitch's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Playtester
Joined: Aug 05, 2014

Agreed, and I'm sure in the future this will serve as experience for the future. When the final expansion rolls around, it will be sent to the printer even earlier to budget for more room for error. A lot of the factors that contributed toward a later-than-expected shipment are uncontrollable, like how fast the boat was moving, how many pirates the crew had to fight off, icebergs, narwhals, rips in time-space, etc.

But seriously, I want to give a huge thanks to GTG for all the work they've done in such a short amount of time. All the behind-the-scenes stuff that we're not even aware of, like planning for the future, tons of conventions, stuff like that. They've made something that causes this much anticipation with each and every expansion, and that's worth celebrating.

So, really. Thank you.


Steam Username: General Specific

You gotta know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em,
Know when to hold fast
And when to turn loose!

arenson9
arenson9's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 3 days ago
ModeratorPlaytester
Joined: Aug 08, 2011

As always, thank you for the civil discussion.

 

Please be careful of tone. For example, 'whiny' is a pejorative opinion, easily taken as an insult. If you can write what you're going to write without using words that can easily be taken as an insult, please do so. If you can't, please reconsider whether or not to write at all.


Hi. My name's Andy. Feel free to call me Andy, since, ya know, that's my name. (he/him/his)

If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If not now, when? If I am for myself alone, what am I? -- Hillel

godzilla999666
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: Sep 30, 2014

While I do wish they had better communications in the beginning - silence until June and again in September my issue is I pre-ordered tactics, since it should be delivered in 2015. They made a commitment in February to do this expansions. Since then 3 different kickstarters have started, were funded, and one has been delivered, and New Bedford is at printer, and Spirit island looks to be in front of tactics, since tactics is still in development. In June’s update Tactic box and expansion was going to get intense focus, their words, in late summer and it is still in development. The mark of a good company is fulfilling their commitment in the order that they have made them. It seems the newer games have taken their resources instead of the them focusing on what was promised first. I get the feeling that since they already had gotten the money for tactics, it was placed on a back burner for other projects in order for them to get more money. I am disappointed that tactics will not even be sent to the printer in the year it was promised to be delivered.

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

I can agree on that front especially when they had the live stream to make a character.  I had hoped it was for Broken City/For Profit but instead a mini expansion for Akash'Bhuta instead.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Silverleaf
Silverleaf's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
PlaytesterBolster Allies
Joined: Apr 10, 2013

Are all you "the communication is fine" people happy that the "Villains is shipping" announcement is essentially a week late, or would you rather have heard it last week when they actually started shipping it?

I'm not usually big on complaining, but that seems like an essential piece of communication to me.

And I totally agree with jmichaelspencer that unwanted updates are easy to skip over, but stuff that they don't tell us is impossible to get for those of us who want more communication.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

phantaskippy
phantaskippy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 4 weeks ago
Playtester
Joined: Jan 26, 2013

I think a "Hey we started the shipping process but we won't be working on it anymore until next week because of the holidays" announcement would have sucked, so I would prefer they wait until things were actually getting shipped out before mentioning that they were shipping things.

 

How much communication do you want?

Weekly updates?  Every other week updates?

morph147
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: Jan 22, 2015

godzilla999666 wrote:

While I do wish they had better communications in the beginning - silence until June and again in September my issue is I pre-ordered tactics, since it should be delivered in 2015. They made a commitment in February to do this expansions. Since then 3 different kickstarters have started, were funded, and one has been delivered, and New Bedford is at printer, and Spirit island looks to be in front of tactics, since tactics is still in development. In June’s update Tactic box and expansion was going to get intense focus, their words, in late summer and it is still in development. The mark of a good company is fulfilling their commitment in the order that they have made them. It seems the newer games have taken their resources instead of the them focusing on what was promised first. I get the feeling that since they already had gotten the money for tactics, it was placed on a back burner for other projects in order for them to get more money. I am disappointed that tactics will not even be sent to the printer in the year it was promised to be delivered.

i will agree with you to a point. The issue however on the 3 kickstarters is how far in development were they before the kickstarter. New Bedford I believe was on kickstarter before the preorders for sentinels started but failed so they had to tweak a couple of things, but otherwise was done. Spirit island I think I remember hearing about around the time of gen con 2014 and at the time of the Kickstarter, they made it sound like it was done except for artwork. And bottom of the ninth sounds like it was in development before the merger and one of the games that helped lead to the merger. Without seeing a developmental timeline of everything I really don't know.

with that being said will agree with you on the delay of tactics. However, I would then ask why, which could be as simple as they were not that far into development as one would have thought when they made the preorder or something else is holding them up. So as someone who preordered tactics, yes I would like to know more details, but again delays happen in everything and could be as simple as characters not being polished yet and having to redo them slightly.


My wife thinks Sentinels is ruining our marriage. I think she doesnt know what shes talking about because she wont sit down to play it

Bas
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 6 months ago
Joined: Dec 10, 2013

While I think a biweekly / monthly communication is all right, the update in question is a checklist with limited transparency, which can easily result in unanswered questions. Personally I gravitate to a little more background in the reasons why certain choices were made, especially when I invested in some of their products on that line.

On the other hand, I want those products to be the best they can be, with Tactics being not just a port from the cardgame, but with interesting new characters and mechanics that change the flow of the skirmish games.

Finally, part of what feels kind of iffy to me is that the preorder for Villains and Tactics came as early as it did, before Wrath of the Cosmos had even arrived. While this was considerate to combine the pre-orders for both games from the perspective of shipping to Europe (which I applaud), I sincerely hope that GtG lauches the next combined pre-order(s) a few months after the next wave of Tactics arrives.

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

Silverleaf wrote:

Are all you "the communication is fine" people happy that the "Villains is shipping" announcement is essentially a week late, or would you rather have heard it last week when they actually started shipping it?I'm not usually big on complaining, but that seems like an essential piece of communication to me.And I totally agree with jmichaelspencer that unwanted updates are easy to skip over, but stuff that they don't tell us is impossible to get for those of us who want more communication.

This thread was started by Paul on 12/23.  He lists that it was in warehouse and the shipping order so I think you're starting reach a bit Silverleaf.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Silverleaf
Silverleaf's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
PlaytesterBolster Allies
Joined: Apr 10, 2013

phantaskippy wrote:

I think a "Hey we started the shipping process but we won't be working on it anymore until next week because of the holidays" announcement would have sucked, so I would prefer they wait until things were actually getting shipped out before mentioning that they were shipping things. How much communication do you want?Weekly updates?  Every other week updates?

See, we'll have to disagree here. I'd vastly prefer "most of it's going out next next week because holidays" than nothing then "oh, by the way, we've already shipped some things but we're only telling you now..." a week later.

This is especially important for those of us who aren't getting shipping notifications, and are at the back of the queue.

Every other week would be ideal, I think, with extras when there's something like a shipping announcement.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

godzilla999666
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: Sep 30, 2014

morph147 wrote:

 

godzilla999666 wrote:
While I do wish they had better communications in the beginning - silence until June and again in September my issue is I pre-ordered tactics, since it should be delivered in 2015. They made a commitment in February to do this expansions. Since then 3 different kickstarters have started, were funded, and one has been delivered, and New Bedford is at printer, and Spirit island looks to be in front of tactics, since tactics is still in development. In June’s update Tactic box and expansion was going to get intense focus, their words, in late summer and it is still in development. The mark of a good company is fulfilling their commitment in the order that they have made them. It seems the newer games have taken their resources instead of the them focusing on what was promised first. I get the feeling that since they already had gotten the money for tactics, it was placed on a back burner for other projects in order for them to get more money. I am disappointed that tactics will not even be sent to the printer in the year it was promised to be delivered.

 

i will agree with you to a point. The issue however on the 3 kickstarters is how far in development were they before the kickstarter. New Bedford I believe was on kickstarter before the preorders for sentinels started but failed so they had to tweak a couple of things, but otherwise was done. Spirit island I think I remember hearing about around the time of gen con 2014 and at the time of the Kickstarter, they made it sound like it was done except for artwork. And bottom of the ninth sounds like it was in development before the merger and one of the games that helped lead to the merger. Without seeing a developmental timeline of everything I really don't know.with that being said will agree with you on the delay of tactics. However, I would then ask why, which could be as simple as they were not that far into development as one would have thought when they made the preorder or something else is holding them up. So as someone who preordered tactics, yes I would like to know more details, but again delays happen in everything and could be as simple as characters not being polished yet and having to redo them slightly.

If you listen to Chris on the boards alive podcast, he talks about how much time he spent working on spirit island this summer before the kickstarter.  Also when i hear pre-order, and see how the havd already listed the characters in the boxes, i figured it was into play testing as it appears villians was, not still in development. 

 

As for updating, Craig or Paul are not part of the development team, so they can post updates without taking anytime away from developing the gsme time.

Silverleaf
Silverleaf's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 9 months ago
PlaytesterBolster Allies
Joined: Apr 10, 2013

Powerhound_2000 wrote:
Silverleaf wrote:
Are all you "the communication is fine" people happy that the "Villains is shipping" announcement is essentially a week late, or would you rather have heard it last week when they actually started shipping it?I'm not usually big on complaining, but that seems like an essential piece of communication to me.And I totally agree with jmichaelspencer that unwanted updates are easy to skip over, but stuff that they don't tell us is impossible to get for those of us who want more communication.

This thread was started by Paul on 12/23.  He lists that it was in warehouse and the shipping order so I think you're starting reach a bit Silverleaf.  

There's a difference between "in the warehouse" and "on its way to customers", as anyone who ordered Wrath from the EU knows all too well. I don't think it's a stretch to want both pieces of information at appropriate times.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

Powerhound_2000
Powerhound_2000's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
PlaytesterExceeded Expectations
Joined: Sep 14, 2013

Paul wrote:

We have begun the massive task of shipping out all of the preorders associated with this! It will probably take 3-5 weeks to get everything out, especially with Christmas and New Years in there. 

Paul stated they were shipping in this thread so yes it is stretch to say that.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Matchstickman
Matchstickman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
Playtester
Joined: Apr 10, 2012

As I've been away a few days a few bits and pieces in no particular order.

I would absolutely refute that any of the Kickstarters were preorders. If the game did not make funding would they have been made? I say to you they would not. I myself believe that that fact is enough to not count them as preorders. On the other hand Villains/Rook City Tactics were coming out no matter the amount of copies ordered through their site, that is a preorder to me.

Also, the shipping was screwed to the EU for Wrath, a Sentinels card game product, how is shipping unrelated product lines making it up to those customers who buy Sentinels card game things?

godzilla999666 wrote:
As for updating, Craig or Paul are not part of the development team,

If you don't count playtesting then yeah I can see how you'd believe that, but as I do count playtesting as a very vital part of developement of a game I absolutely do not agree with that.

I hate >G communication. It is absolutely fantastic when they do release information but the promises they make on the releases of that information is just so out of whack when it comes to the actual timing. Did you know that when the preorder blog first came out that this web page said While a preorder is running, we will post daily updates on week days. ? We didn't get that. I PMed Craig about it and he said "I'm not sure I ever even knew it was there."* Now I don't expect daily updates, I think that promise is unreasonable but if they say they are going to do a thing then by golly I expect them to do a thing or at least to admit when they don't do that thing. And there are other times that I can remember where things have been said and then not done (That is the only concrete example I have a record of to hand), and that more than anything else is why I use the word "hate" in my description of >G communications.

I don't know what else I want to say here in this thread. I guess I will just end with I am dissatisified with the both the timing and the manner this preorder information has been released.

 

*I attach no blame to Craig for this.

 

 

EDIT:

You're highlighting the wrong part of that quote Powerhound_2000 (for my money)

Paul wrote:
We have begun the massive task of shipping out all of the preorders associated with this! It will probably take 3-5 weeks to get everything out, especially with Christmas and New Years in there.
3-5 weeks is a huge span of time, when do people start worrying that their order has gone missing? If they can estimate the length it will take to ship all then they can break down the individual bits into a rough timeline too e.g. a) Backordered Oversized Villain Cards- 3 days, b) US Preorder Backers- 1-2 weeks etc.

Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all

Temporary image until an H emoticon is added!

phantaskippy
phantaskippy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 4 weeks ago
Playtester
Joined: Jan 26, 2013

Matchstickman wrote:

Paul wrote:

We have begun the massive task of shipping out all of the preorders associated with this! It will probably take 3-5 weeks to get everything out, especially with Christmas and New Years in there.

 

3-5 weeks is a huge span of time, when do people start worrying that their order has gone missing? If they can estimate the length it will take to ship all then they can break down the individual bits into a rough timeline too e.g. a) Backordered Oversized Villain Cards- 3 days, b) US Preorder Backers- 1-2 weeks etc.

Okay, but what if they can't gaurantee that timeline?

They gave a rough set time, and then when they came back they gave a much more specific time.  I get that people are unhappy, but we saw all their schedules come up wrong for Wrath of the Cosmos and they did the same, they let us know the info they could give us.

Estimates are generated off previous experience, and with the experiences they have had:  

Being at printer means you have no idea when the games will be ready to ship.

Being on a ship to America means you have no idea when the games will be shipped.

Being on a truck that has passed customs on route to headquarters gives you your first real sense of when they will arrive.

Being in the warehouse means 90% of the forces of timing for shipping are under your control.

 

This is why companies that can afford not to do preorders don't.  They wait until they have enerything under control and ready to go.  They ship to stores before the release date, they don't take preorders until they have everything ready.

That's not where GtG is.  it's still a small operation, so they take preorders before they have much control over the timeline.  Honestly they shouldn't give estimates for delivery of the final product, but it is hard to sell someone something under those conditions.

 

Foote
Foote's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 week ago
PlaytesterHarmony
Joined: Apr 09, 2013

I love >G. I love the folks in >G. You could call me a pretty big fan of them as people. I count them all as friends. Especially you Craig. wink

With that said, I tend to agree with Matchstick and Silver in their general arguments. Communication has been sliding slowly for a long time now*, thats just the fact of the matter. Are there good and defendable reasons for it? I know there are. But lets call it what it is. Whether you are content with things as they are or not, I believe their concerns are more than valid and shouldn't be dismissed so easily.

*I attach all blame to Craig for this.

Matchstickman
Matchstickman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 1 day ago
Playtester
Joined: Apr 10, 2012

phantaskippy wrote:
Okay, but what if they can't gaurantee that timeline?

I don't understand what you're getting at. They would do the exact same thing they would if the 3-5 week estimate is wrong. We would just have more information on what they thought the individual parts of the 3-5 weeks was going to be.


Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all

Temporary image until an H emoticon is added!

Pages