I have two questions I wanted to put in front of wiser heads than I:
First, I am embarassed to say that although I have been playing with the Infinite Scholar for over a week now, and enjoying the heck out of his Don't Dimiss Anything(DDA), someone had to point out to me that one played DDA can retrieve a 2nd DDA from the Scholar's trash, allowing a steady rotation of DDA mayhem.
My question is this: in order to set that up, I need some way to pull out the 2x DDA's from the scholar's deck. Is there any hero or card that will let me search the Scholar's deck and retrieve it? (Obviously I can use cards to cycle through his deck faster, Team Leader Tachyon, Visionary, Argent Adept - but what I am seeking is a way to got find and retrieve that one card without having to go through all the cards above it.)
My second question is about another strategy I read: using Nightmist to play Mistbound over and over again to keep a deck (villain or environment) locked down. And so I ask: once Mistbound has been played, how do you get it out of her trash and back into her hand in time for her to play it again next turn? With my current lineup of heroes, I might use Argent Adept's Vernal Sonata, followed by Team Leader Tachyon's power, but that depends on AA having a Sonata in hand each turn. Is there a more reliable combination that can gift Nightmist with a card from her trash into her hand (or better yet, in play) every turn?
Thanks.
There is no way that I know of to specifically search for a one-shot and put into hand for any hero deck nor a way for another hero to grant you that ability. You do have to depend on card draw to get those and once you do it would be potent. In the setup with Scholar and Nightmist I'd say make sure you have Scholar in turn order after Nightmist otherwise playing a Mistbound from the top of her deck would expire before affecting the villain.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
1. There is no way to search for Don't Dismiss Anything in The Scholar's deck, so card draw is the best way to get both copies.
2. You could use The Scholar's Don't Dismiss Anything or Tempest's Reclaim from the Deep. Both of which allow them to retrieve themselves, thus once you you have 2 copies of either one you would be able to always have one in hand.
Put tempest right before Scholar in turn order.
1. burn your decks (both can do that pretty well) to get 2 copies of reclaim and DDA.
2. Tempest plays Reclaim, all heroes other than Tempest and Scholar put a card they want to go into play on top. Tempest puts a reclaim from the trash on top and draws it, Scholar most of the time it doesn't matter because of how he has to use DDA.
3. Scholar plays DDA, you know the other hero cards, play them in the desired order, Tempest plays the unknown top card from his deck, and Scholar puts DDA on top of hid, then draws it.
4. Repeat.
Playing DDA with DDA sounds great, but it ends with both in the trash and you lose the benefit for the next round.
Reclaim can work with Scholar if you have Tachyon and she puts Fleet of Foot on top of her deck (or anyones with all card draw) and play that card from the top after the other cards you want played but before scholar's turn. That can give scholar the ability to play the top card of his deck with DDA, since he can top card the DDA from the trash and draw it right before he has the option to play the top card of his deck.
Adept can be added into the equation to increase the shenanigans to epic levels. (2-3 controlled DDAs a round) But it gets really hard to keep track of, like insanely hard when you are chaining instruments out of turn in the middle of a DDA that led to playing reclaim and DDA during the resolution of a DDA. At one point I had to write it all down when exploring just how crazy it could get and I had like 23 different steps waiting to resolve. I'd suggest trying that one in the video game, but often you end up screwing up who should do what, when.
My favorite heroes to pair with this strategy:
Grandpa Legacy: Add him to the team with Adept and the game is ridiculous and barely even playable. your brain will be exhausted. Also Takedown.
Mister Fixer: Overdrive, Salvage YArd, Charge, bring back and style or tool from the trash, but mostly Grease Gun played after you play your turn so it never negatively affects you.
Expat: Unload every round, reusing Arsenal to build up weapons, she has some great cards.
Nightmist: get Master of Magic and play all your spells, Mistbound is big, but you can use Enlighten pull off the Fleet of foot trick as well, and she is great burning Tempest and Scholar's decks.
Pretty much every hero is awesome when you get to play your best cards over and over again while the villain is unable to play cards or deal damage.
OK, let's say the Scholar plays after Nightmist. Nightmist plays Mistbound, it goes into her discards/trash. Next turn Scholar play DDA and Nightmist moves the Mistbound from her trash to the top of her deck. Now her turn rolls around, and Mistbound is NOT in her hand so she can't play it.
So the part I don't understand is how do you go from Nightmist playing Mistbound on one turn (and it going into the discards/trash) to her retrieving the card IN TIME for her to play it the very next turn?
You could also incap Bunker.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"
Well you could have Adept or Team Leader Tachyon give her a card draw either right before Nightmist or after Scholar.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Yeah, wasn't thinking about playing DDA with DDA, more on playing DDA to get the other DDA out of my trash, rinse repeat each turn. Scholar doesn't get to do much, but everyone else be playing cards like crazy! (And I always play TLT in first position, so no problems there.)
I should have mentioned this at the top maybe, but I am doing all my sentinelling at the moment via the video game. No way I could keep track of everything otherwise. Even when I went over to a friends house to play sentinel, we both pulled out our PCs.
That's the plan. So far I have been playing TeamLeader Tachyon(TLT), World's Greatest Legacy(WGL), Dark Visionary(DV), <insert>, and Argent Adept(AA). I started out with Ra in the <insert position>, then moved to Infinite Scholar (which is FUN), then Unity, and now I have Nightmist in that position.
Btw, when I had Unity in that position I was able to get almost all of her bots out and was doing with her alone about 70+ damage per turn. Good times.
The TLT/WGL/DV combo is pretty extremely good:
I have been playing AA with them simply because once he gets setup, he can reliably get a lot more card and power plays for the others via Lyra/InventPrep/AlacSubdom/InspSuper - that's either 2 card plays or one power and one card play each time he uses the Lyra for just about any hero on the board! And with WGL, he can just send it to AA, who can fork it and send it elsewhere. AA also has the Sonata, great for healing and card recovery, as well as his Flare and Shadow cards which let AA use even *more* tricks to let other play more. Plus if you really need them AA has all kinds of other songs too: healing, damage, ongoing/env destruction - but his most powerful choices ocne set up are defintely the Lyra/card/power combos.
I get the feeling that TLT/WGL/DV is a critical part of the best possible five man team. I am wondering who are next best 2 more adds? AA? Nightmist (or Unity or Scholar or Fanatic)? Playing around with it all.
Thanks.
That's kind of what I did with my lineup, used AA (who is at the end of the line for obvious reasons) use the Lyra to use Insp SuperTonic, to have TLT force a draw, then the Lyra had InvPrep so Nightmist could play that card.
The problem with putting Team Leader Tachyon in any other position than first is that
Who said you couldn't put Team Leader Tachyon first? As I stated you need the card draw before Nightmist's next turn so either Tachyon would be after Nightmist and Scholar or before Nightmist.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I'm still confused. Let's go back to the start:
Basically, what the best setup for Nightmist to pump a single Mistbound card over and over again every turn reliably? Without relying on luck (once you snag a Mistbound, that is.)
Thanks.
It needs luck no matter what because you have to first get to a Mistbound and then you need heroes with trash recovery like Scholar, Argent Adept, or Tempest to draw their respective card. You could set it up to work for a while but I'm sure you could set it up for round being able to accomplish this.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Or incap a hero with an incap ability that allows you to take a card from your trash into your hand.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"
You can use Heedless Lash to play Mistbound from the top of the deck.
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
So no ongoings or inate powers that let one dumpster dive I guess...
Would *this* permablock a deck?:
TLT, Scholar with 2 DDA's already in hand, Nightmist with 1 Mistbound (assuming a bit of luck at the start)
Would that permablock any deck? Would it work just the same if it was Tempest with Reclaim from the Deep?
If so, a team with TLT, Nightmist, Scholar, Tempest and Visionary could be doable, yes? Because that way you have four cards to use to roll Mistbound. And then Visionary could block the remaining deck. Main issue would be tieing up so many heroes card plays. Maybe getting AA in on the action (instead of Visionary) would be useful for his out of turn cards plays and Vernal to back up Reclaim and DDA - though that might leave one tto exposed to the *other* deck.
Just thinking out loud... your thoughts about making perma Mistbound a viable main line of attack?
Honestly, you'd be better off with Legacy, Visionary and O-X.
Takedown in the trash, then on Visionary's turn, use Mental Divergence to put it on top of Legacy's deck, then O-X puts it back into play.
Except for the first turn you use it, you avoid the damage rider and you're golden.
Yeah, just tried it in the app -- it took a while for me to draw both cards, but once I did it was more or less a cakewalk.
I liked to visualize it as Legacy just holding Voss down and decking him over and over while Visionary and O-X quelled the riots.
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
Nice! Great imagery too, lol. I'll have to try that.
PS: What environment did you use in your test?
The Block, mainly because it's easily manageable. But to my knowledge, there aren't any environments that force Ongoing destruction (at least, not without giving you a round to prepare for it), so it should work anywhere.
Mad Bomber Baron Blade, The Dreamer and Miss Information might be able to break out of it, however.
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
Against the Dreamer you don't want her to stop playing cards on her flipped side or you can't win.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
I've lost more than a couple because her playing four cards a turn ended with huge, global attacks, and if I'd had time to fish for, say, Twist the Ether and Flesh of the Sun God, it would've ended differently.
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
One thing I noted is that even with Takedown in play, the Chairman's Operative was still able to pull out underbosses. Would Mistbound, which directly references the deck, stop the Operative?
It would not. Any text that says put into play will always bypass not being able to play cards. An example of wording you can compare is Atlantean Font of Power which Mistbound would prevent that card play versus Slamara in Enclave of the Endlings which Mistbound would not prevent.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
Use the same team but GrandPa Legacy instead of regular, then have GrandPa Gung-Ho Omnitron-X so they can get Take down in play and play/trash a single card from The Dreamer's deck in a round. Should be easy to take out a single Projection each round.
Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all
That makes for a long game especially if you ended up at five heroes if you play it out. Though thinking about it setting up a team which shuts down the villain deck every round is going to make for a long game as it means your damage output it likely low.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
(I actually ended up Self-Sabotaging the damaging components away because it was starting to look like Voss was going to get taken out before I managed to get the set-up going.)
If Legacy gets his ring out (or you're using Young Legacy), he can also maintain a damage presence pretty reliably -- and, since you've got the villain deck locked down, minions are a non-issue.
While the set-up depends on Legacy, it can be any Legacy (so Young Legacy can start and keep blasting, for instance) and it won't interrupt or stall his play-power-draw, and the other two can be whoever you want. With the villain deck locked down, you could easily round out the team with pure damage dealers like Ra or Haka.
BurningStickman7 on Steam.
My first novel: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"
The C-Team Podcast
Instead of Legacy preventing card plays, you could use Mister Fixer and the Grease Gun to prevent damage. That could be effective against the Dreamer.
The build may not rely on a particular Legacy, but Grandpa Legacy with Omnitron-X makes the setup achievable faster.
"Deja-fu? You've heard of that?"
- Lu Tze, Sweeper, Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett
The Treacherous Ape can get around a Grease Gun.
No it doesn't. Treacherous Ape is the one dealing the damage.
Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31
It is, but possibly the reference being made was that the Ape destroys equipment when he's destroyed? In which case all you'd need would be for one other piece of equipment to be out, and then destroy that instead :).
I am the Wordweaver...
Basically, I like writing stuff ;)
That's the main problem with trying to set up a deck with the sole aim of "permablocking" a villain's deck. Some of the nastiest villains (Dawn, Chairman, Matriarch) have abilities or powers that allow them to search their deck/trash for cards, then "put those cards into play." Then all the Mistbounds/Take Downs in the world can't help you. :(
(Mind you, to me "put a card into play" still seems awfully close to "play a card," but I have come to accept that it's different. Maybe in V.2 of the game, change the "put into play" wording to something that doesn't use the word "play," so it's less confusing?)