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Captain Cosmic Prime Warden Unlock

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Phantom5613
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I'm working on unlocking PW AA on my phone so I can test the theory out, but since it's on the mobile version I won't have a game-log. I'm guessing that won't be much use, will it?

UXM266
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Phantom5613 wrote:

I'm working on unlocking PW AA on my phone so I can test the theory out, but since it's on the mobile version I won't have a game-log. I'm guessing that won't be much use, will it?

There are ways, but it could be tedious. Can you take a video of it? Or write it out? Take a screenshot of the moment it happens, and then rewind one or two steps and screenshot that!

 

It's at least something


I THOUGHT I was the the last Scion but it's actually .....

Phantom5613
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UXM266 wrote:

There are ways, but it could be tedious. Can you take a video of it? Or write it out? Take a screenshot of the moment it happens, and then rewind one or two steps and screenshot that! It's at least something

I'll see what I can do, but no guarantees.

Jeysie
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If it's an Android device, then hitting the home button before a game ends and navigating to the game's folder to copy the log somewhere works out fine. No idea what to do on iOS devices, though.


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

jorgenp
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For the phone unlock, perhaps just prove for us whether or not Dok'Thorath is needed first.  Remember to unlock PW AA first.  Just focus on getting Energy Bracer onto heroes other than Captain Cosmic and tally how many times they reduce damage.  If it doesn't unlock at 20, try a few more times just to make sure you didn't miscount, and let us know.  Then repeat in Dok'Thorath.

We'll use other logs to try to figure out the intracacies of the redirecting mechanic.

If anyone on Steam hasn't unlocked and is willing to help, please let us know and we can come up with a sequence of steps explaining how you can do so.

Jeysie
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I feel really silly for forgetting to save the log right after I explained how to do it :P , but I wiped my old tablet's game install and set it up again, and using the same setup and methology I had the last time in this thread except switching out the Capital for Realm of Discord did not result in an unlock. I also remember someone on Steam saying that they too tried swapping the environment and only got the unlock when they changed back to the Capital.

Anything else you would like me to try? I had been thinking of trying to go for having Wounding Buffer be the only construct I play, but I'm open to other suggestions.


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

MindWanderer
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Captain Cosmic's new bio mentions "the very foreign soil of far-fling [sic] worlds."  That could mean Dok'Thorath, certainly, but it could mean the Enclave of the Endlings or potentially even Wagner Mars Base.


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jorgenp
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I think that's enough to prove the Environment is necessary.  Perhaps try the Enclave, but that would be really annoying if we have to figure out exactly which subset of Environments work.  Let's continue to assume Dok'Thorath is the only one for now.

 

Things we need to try:

  • Requires a log: Redirect damage to Captain Cosmic from Abject Refugees so that Captain Cosmic reduces some of the damage, but not all of it (with Energy Bracer).  Do this a few times before using Energy Bracers on other heroes to get the unlock.
  • Requires a log and a complicated setup: Bring Tachyon to the fight. Use Synaptic Interruption to redirect a damage source of 3 or more to Captain Cosmic while he has an Energy Bracer attached.  Then go to town on your other heroes that have Energy Bracers attached until you get the unlock.
  • Requires a log: Redirect Energy damage from Abject Refugees to a Construct while Cosmic Crest is in play.  Then go to town on your other heroes that have Energy Bracers attached until you get the unlock.
  • Dosn't require a log, but it would help, and it may not work: Don't play Energy Bracers on anyone except Captain Cosmic.  Try to get an unlock via Wounding Buffers and other constructs.

The first and second will nail down if it is redirection or reduction/immunity post-redirection that is being counted.  The third tests whether the damage must be redirected to Captain Cosmic or whether a Construct is fine (this is probably the least important test).  The fourth will try to figure out whether there is an alternate path we are missing.

 

Edit note: I modified the second test to make it easier to set up.  It used to be a Smoke Bombs/Mechanical Golem combo.

 

WarrenAC
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Just adding that tobey158's log from Steam discussions is interesting as it shows *21* instances of Energy Bracers reducing damage (all to non-Cap Cosmic heroes).  Wounding buffer was triggered twice. 

http://pastebin.com/Nuu4NkzG


--Warren

jorgenp
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There's nothing special about that one.  The final two Energy Bracers triggered at the same time, so the 20th and 21st reductions were simultaneous.  The unlock couldn't come between them as it's not a valid time for the card unlock to pop up.

Jeysie
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http://pastebin.com/5YfNDwuf

Playing nothing but Wounding Buffers didn't seem to do anything, so there's that idea down.


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

Jeysie
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Was reminded to note that the other day on the stream MigrantP said we were "really close" and we "just needed to tie all the threads together".


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

jorgenp
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In that case, for those that are following Steam and Reddit, is there anything that has been mentioned there that we have missed here?

 

Every log and dsecription so far seems to follow the pattern of a total of 20HP either reduced by Energy Bracer or redirected from non-CC targets to CC.  We also have confirmation that Environments other than Dok'Thorath don't work and it seems logical that PW AA needs to be unlocked first, given PW Tempest's conditions.

 

However, the above is not enough.  Things we don't know yet include:

  • When using redirected damage to make up the 20HP, the logs we have reduce the damage to Captain Cosmic to 0.  Would they still count if the damage were reduced but not totally?
  • Could redirection to Captain Cosmic's Constructs work in addition to redirecting to Captain Cosmic?
  • Do methods of redirection apart from Abject Refugees work?
  • Why do some of the logs wait until a few Wounding Buffers have triggered before the unlock occurs?  Those logs still follow the 20HP reduced or redirected clause, with the Wounding Buffers triggered by the same damage that should trigger the unlock, so is this just weird timing of simultaneous effects or are we missing something?

 

We really need a test that determines some of this for us.  I think this test would be great to help us tie up the loose threads:

Use Tachyon's Synaptic Interruption to redirect damage to Captain Cosmic and/or his Constructs.  Have some but not all of it reduced by Energy Bracer attached to Captain Cosmic.  Get the rest of the 20HP total by attaching Energy Bracer to other heroes (probably best to have only one each per hero).

 

That methods easier than the Smoke Bombs test I mentioned earlier.

Arcanist Lupus
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Here's my log.  I wasn't trying anything special, but it might be useful anyways.

 

 

Actually, that's not quite true.  I was trying to unlock Tempest, Haka, and CC all in the same game.  And I suceeded!  I think that my heroes did more damage to each other trying to incap themselves for Haka's unlock than Ambuscade did to us.

Attachment(s): 

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UXM266
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Arcanist Lupus wrote:

Here's my log.  I wasn't trying anything special, but it might be useful anyways.  Actually, that's not quite true.  I was trying to unlock Tempest, Haka, and CC all in the same game.  And I suceeded!  I think that my heroes did more damage to each other trying to incap themselves for Haka's unlock than Ambuscade did to us.

That's how I originally unlocked him! I was aiming for tempest, when suddenly BAM! DOO DOO DO DO DO DOOO. The unlock for CC


I THOUGHT I was the the last Scion but it's actually .....

jorgenp
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Thanks Arcanist Lupus.  You're right, it's nothing special, but it doesn't break our current theories.

 

Hopefully someone will be willing to test out Synaptic Interruption method soon so we can finalise the redirecting part of the unlock.  Then we just need to figure out what's up with the Wounding Buffer stalls and we'll have this solved.

Jeysie
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I tried having Tachyon redirect damage a few times with Synaptic Interruption to Captain Cosmic while he did not have a Bracer on. Then I stuck Bracers on other people as usual. The unlock eventually happened after... 22 blockings of damage to other people. My brain now hurts.

http://pastebin.com/9k8EhWud


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

jorgenp
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This is an interesting one.

  • A total of 13 unreduced damage is redirected Captain Cosmic's way in three separate occasions.
  • 3 of the Energy Bracer reductions were from damage initiated against Captain Cosmic, but then redirected via Alchemical Redirection to The Scholar.
  • The final unlock comes from damage initiated against an Energy Bracer redirected to The Scholar and then reduced, so these instances definitely count.

 

I can't get the numbers to add up, so there must be something else I'm missing.  If the unlock had happened one reduction later, we'd perhaps have most things solved, as we could say the damage initiated against Captain Cosmic and redirected away doesn't count and the redirects to Captain Cosmic weren't counted due to it not being reduced/made immune.  Those descriptions only put the log at 19 reductions, though.

Man, we are so close to this condition, but yet so far...

 

 

Jeysie
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I find it kind of ironic that come Monday we'll likely have to spend our hint karma on a hint for the second PW unlock we managed, rather than on Haka or Fanatic.

But yeah, this is weird. We know that "Unlock PW Argent, then while using Cosmic in the Capital, block damage to other heroes using Bracers 20 times" works, but it obviously is not the whole premise.

I hope this isn't going to become the next Santa Guise. X3


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

Phantom5613
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I really do think we are over-complicating this, but I don't have the patience to read through the logs...

Jeysie
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AFAIK we already guessed all the lowest common denominators and the Head Dudes in Charge were not impressed by our meager offerings, so we must be missing something beyond the simple...


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

jorgenp
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Well, your latest log probably has the key.  It's the only log so far that does not follow CC reducing or redirecting 20 total damage from non-CC targets pattern.

WarrenAC
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Jeysie wrote:

I tried having Tachyon redirect damage a few times with Synaptic Interruption to Captain Cosmic while he did not have a Bracer on. Then I stuck Bracers on other people as usual. The unlock eventually happened after... 22 blockings of damage to other people. My brain now hurts.http://pastebin.com/9k8EhWud

Two of the blockings are double counted due to an undo of the end of Dok'Thorath environment turn,  so this has 19 blocks against the bracer on The Scholar,  and one against the one on Freedom Six Tachyon = our classic 20 blocks.


--Warren

bobbertoriley
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So, I've got two devices that haven't unlocked Captain Cosmic yet (PC, Android), so I'm willing to try a couple tests.

Can someone point which things you'd specifically like to be tested?

Jeysie
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Oh right, duh! I forgot I undid a second time because I wanted to try to rearrange steps to keep more damage sources alive to speed things up. >_<

Well, now I'm stumped again. What are we missing? Is it because I didn't put Cosmic Crest on Cosmic? I was trying to take on the variables one at a time.


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

jorgenp
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Do you still have the log in unedited form?  I'd like to check it with the undo information properly removed.

Jeysie
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That is the unedited log. I simply forgot there were two undo points when I did my own count of 22 blocks. The second undo is line 669.


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

jorgenp
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Jeysie wrote:

That is the unedited log. I simply forgot there were two undo points when I did my own count of 22 blocks. The second undo is line 669.

Oh, I guess this log version uses a different undo style to Steam...  I'll get back to you soon on my thoughts.

 

bobbertoriley wrote:

So, I've got two devices that haven't unlocked Captain Cosmic yet (PC, Android), so I'm willing to try a couple tests.Can someone point which things you'd specifically like to be tested?

Here's a few tests that can be done:

Test 1: Finalise whether redirection with reduction works -

  • Unlock PW AA
  • Start a fight in Dok'Thorath with Tachyon and Captain Cosmic on the team.
  • Have Energy Bracers attached to Captain Cosmic and at least one other Hero.
  • Have Tachyon play Synaptic Interruption.
  • Deal Tachyon 3 or more damage and redirect to Captain Cosmic with Synaptic Interruption so that it is reduced via Energy Bracer.
  • Deal damage to the Hero/es with Energy Bracers (not Captain Cosmic) until you get the unlock.  We will need to know how many times this happened.

 

Test 2: See if redirecting into immune Constructs works -

  • Unlock PW AA
  • Start a fight in Dok'Thorath with Captain Cosmic on the team.
  • Have Captain Cosmic play Cosmic Crest.
  • Wait until Abject Refugees are in play.  At some point, redirect Energy damage targeted at them to Cosmic Crest or another Construct.  Note that it must be Energy damage.
  • Attach Energy Bracers to Heroes other than Captain Cosmic and deal damage to them until you get the unlock.  We will need to know how many times this happened.
jorgenp
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OK, new thoughts on your log, Jeysie:

  • You've shown that redirection either requires reduction/immunity, or that the only redirection that counts is Abject Refugees itself. 
  • It seems that damage initiated against Captain Cosmic and redirected elsewhere does count towards the total of 20, despite the damage reduced by Energy Bracers attached to Captain Cosmic not seeming to count.  Alchemical Redirection was a useful card to have in these tests.

Given these, the unlock condition might be something along the lines of:

 

Prime Wardens Argent Adet must be unlocked.  Then in the Dok'Thortah Capital with Captain Cosmic, the total of damage redirected from Abject Refugees to Captain Cosmic and damage reduced by Captain Cosmic's Energy Bracers to other Heroes must be at least 20.

 

I suppose I still haven't figured out what's up with the Wounding Buffer delay to the unlock, though...  Perhaps it's just a weird quirk in the timing?

MigrantP
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The refugees appreciate your help! The community has discovered the official unlock conditions for Prime Wardens Argent Adept:

Prime Wardens Argent Adept must be unlocked. Then, in a game in Dok’Thorath Capital, standard Captain Cosmic must prevent a total of 20 damage that would be dealt to other heroes or refugees. The prevention must be accomplished with Energy Bracers or by redirecting damage from Abject Refugees to Captain Cosmic.


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jorgenp
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Yay for us solving the puzzle!

Boo for me having the answer 5 days ago and just assuming it was all 'non-Captain Cosmic cards' instead of going directly to just Abject Refugees first. crying

I suppose this may be my comeuppance for Haka Crushing the Abject Refugees to get them under Savage Mana in my unlock!

Thanks for the help Jeysie, although I had previously thought it might just be Abject Refugees only, I needed your log to have enough info to actually suggest it might just be them.

MigrantP, how did it feel watching us squirm for so long on this one being so very close?  Also, I guess we have no more need for a hint on Monday...  unless we cash it in on Santa Guise... wink

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You have all the information you need to solve Santa Guise, but nobody has done so.


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Jeysie
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jorgenp wrote:
Thanks for the help Jeysie, although I had previously thought it might just be Abject Refugees only, I needed your log to have enough info to actually suggest it might just be them.

Happy to help!

Sorry it took so long, in fact, but doing PW Argent's unlock repeatedly on an old slow tablet was... well... slow. (Also, why is it that I have had my fair share of times I've almost lost to Akash while legitimately playing, but when I'm actively trying to lose it takes forever?)

The good news is I can help with Santa Guise testing a lot more easily.

P.S. Honestly I feel kind of silly I never picked up on the Refugees bit myself, but I frequently had Refugees either never show up or it wasn't Cosmic I redirected the damage to.


"If life gives you lemons, make a lemon cannon."

Not always the best at social skills; I apologize in advance. I don't apologize for any corny and morbid jokes, though.

Resident Argent Adept and Biomancer fangirl, be forewarned.

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Easy trick: Fight Ambuscade (low damage output) and put an Energy Bracer on Fanatic. Then, have Fanatic pop a Sonic Mine with Divine Sacrifice. With enough targets in play, that'll make for a TON of reduced damage.

 

You might wanna have a second Bracer, or Undaunted just to make sure Fanatic doesn't get too much damage piled up on her.

TakeWalker
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Wow. That's a crazy unlock. I know I never redirected from the refugees, so lots of false positives in there! :O

just.a.smith
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The easiest way I found to unlock it was to use PW Tempest, pile all the Energy Bracers on him, and then use his power as often as possible.

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