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Call for submissions: SotM Strategy Guide

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Spiff
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Call for submissions: SotM Strategy Guide

Someone here (not me) needs to buckle down and write an actual SotM strategy guide, don't you think?  We've got all the parts here on the forum already: discussions of hero turn order, discussions of particularly good card combos, discussions of how to teach SotM to new players, etc.  It just needs to be wrapped up by someone who's into that kind of thing and written in a way that someone new to the game could read it to get a deeper understanding of the game than they might get by poking around on their own.  The SotM guys are way too busy to write it themselves, so it's up to us.  I imagine it should answer questions like these:

What is each hero good at and what are they bad at?  If I play Visionary and discover that she doesn't have the pew pew I'd hoped for, why should I ever play her again?  Which heroes work well together and which don't?  What are good combinations of cards I should be trying to get during a game for each hero?  Why would Tachyon want to discard cards to her trash rather than have them in her hand?  Why on Earth would Absolute Zero want to deal damage to himself?  I keep getting murdered by Matriarch and Chairman but I have no idea how to change that.  Are they completely unbeatable?

The guide could include info about which heroes are slow-builders so that noobs know to expect that and not think they're doing something wrong if they're not firing rockets on the very first turn.  It could also include the suggestion to play around with the value of "H" as an option to reduce the deadliness of some encounters when new people are still learning the game.

Anyone interested in stepping up and writing this vital literary work?  I'd be happy to host it online next to the rest of my accessories if necessary.


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm

awp832
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I'd certainly be willing to do my part,  but if we're going to do a strategy guide for each hero, thats a lot of stuff to be done, especially if we want to include team-building and general strategies in there.

It might be easiest to do this in piecemeal, perhaps anyone who was interested could make a post tagged as "strategy guide:  Hero name"    or  replace 'hero name' with team selection or whatever.  Then someone could compile them all into one mega-guide, rather than having someone write the whole thing.  I feel you'd get a lot more detail that way.

The other advantage is that if board posters have dissenting opinions or even things that should be added,  they could be posted and then the original guide could be edited/modified to include these new considerations.


"He robbed from the rich and he-
gave to the poor.
Stood up to the Man and he-
gave him what for. 
Our love for him now,
aint hard to explain,
the hero of Canton,
the man they call "Jayne""

Reckless
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If nothing else, an FAQ with more detail on certain aspects of the game would be great.  For instance, effect resolution or playing multiple cards off of the villain deck due to effects from the environment, cards, etc.  Shall we start discussing character by character?

Perhaps we can start with Legacy?

With his Galvanize effect, it usually helps having him near the front in my experience (but it really only affects the first turn).  Cards like Take Down and Enduring Intercession are magnificent to help the rest of the team, and Lead From the Front combined with Fortitude can really help against those small AoE effects.  His Galvanize effect can be dangerous with certain other cards (Haka's Rampage, for instance, or Plague Rat's Infection cards), but generally it helps more than it hurts.  He does well in a large party consisting of at least two or three characters that have many damage dealing effects.  For smaller parties, he isn't as useful (Try Young Legacy for parties less than four if you want some good ol' fashioned American justice).  Of particular note is his synergy with Absolute Zero.  Due to his Galvanize effect, AZ can deal himself two Fire damage (one increased by one due to Galvanize), which in turn deals three Cold damage to a target (Two Cold Damage increased by one due to Galvanize).  Combine this with Focused Apertures, and AZ can four damage for the price of two.  There are of course more combos and tactics that can be used, but this is a basic combo with no more than two cards and two heroes.

This is not much, I know, but it's a start.  Any other perspectives on Legacy, or shall we move on to another Hero?  Perhaps a Villain?  Environment?


Ra, God of the Fun
Draw, God of the Sun
The Matriarch's Psychic damage is her forcing a gratuitous amount of Snapple facts about birds into a hero's brain.

flamethrower49
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I've been working on in-depth strategy guides for each of the heroes, but I work awfully slowly.  I have Tachyon and Visionary mostly done, so I'll post them sometime today.  Haka, Bunker, and Legacy are in the works.  I also have typed up my guide to beating Spite, and was considering one for some of the other villains. 

I guess I'll see what I can do as a generalized guide as well.  I'm on board with this project.

McBehrer
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I suppose I can take one for the team here.

I'll appreciate input, of course, but I am (being modest here) really good at writing. I would have been a Journalism major, if I hadn't changed to Radio and also not gone to any of my classes. Put simply, you can't beat me at an informative-writing-off. I'm simply the best there is.

If you have anything you want in it specifically (you being anyone and everyone) just send me a PM with what you want in it, and I'll try and work it in if I haven't already included it. I'll even attribute specific strategies to people who suggest them (as if you can own a combo lol) and such.

Stay tuned for my basic formatting.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

McBehrer
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So, I'm thinking it will work something like this:

I'll start out with basics of the game, clarification on certain rules, etc. I'll also include a link to Spiff's errata, since it is chock-full of helpful tidbits and stuff.

Then I'll move into general strategies. Which targets are priorities (based off of what they do damage to, how much, what type, other effects, etc.), etc.

From there I'll move onto Hero descriptions. I'll give a quick theme description, a one-word description of their role within the team (buffs, damage, AoE, etc.) as well as x/5 ratings of various aspects (environment control, misc. support, damage influence, damage output (possibly divided between AoE and single-target), tanking, and overall). Also included will be good combinations of partners and cards to play, villains they are good against, and general play style.

Also, I want each hero to have a note or 2 (no more, plz. I'll pick the best if multiple are submitted. You can put in notes for multiple heroes, but I don't necessarily want one person dominating all the notes.) from someone on the forums, either as a recommendation in general, an alternate strategy, a second opinion on quality or whatever, etc. If anyone recommends a specific hero, I'll be sure to put that in as a *[username's] CHOICE* label thing.

I'll do the same kind of thing for villains; ranking in difficulty, which ones are good or bad against which heroes, general tactics they use, strategies to defeat them, etc. I'll also have notes here from users.

And again for environments; ranked in order of difficulty, with general themes, what to look out for, what can help you, which heroes excel there, which don't, and which villains are particularly effective/weak there. Also with notes and user's choice logos.

Sound good? anyone have any questions, objections, or anything? Anyone have an issue with me writing it?

I'll put it on Google Docs once I get a basic framework, and will gladly accept suggestions and revisions and stuff.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Spiff
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That sounds pretty good.  I like the idea of x/5 ratings for aspects since that would help a newbie be able to tell at a glance how the heroes compare.

Also might be good to include info on how the hero's strategy changes when playing one of their alt versions.

Keep in mind that the Extended Edition is coming out, so it could be tough to figure out what to spend time on first.  For example, if the first thing you write up is a detailed guide on Baron Blade strategy and then in August we find that the EE changes how he plays significantly, you may have to scrap half your BB guide, which would be sad.

I'm dying to read this thing now, seeing as how unbelievably great a writer you are. :)


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm

awp832
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with all due respect to clearly the best writer on the internet.  If I'm going to write a strategy guide -or part of one-,  I'd prefer to do it myself.  Maybe it will have some mistakes,  I tend to comma splice,  but I don't expect those reading are looking for a literary masterpiece.  They'll be looking for advice, suggestions, or insights on the game,  and that I can provide.


"He robbed from the rich and he-
gave to the poor.
Stood up to the Man and he-
gave him what for. 
Our love for him now,
aint hard to explain,
the hero of Canton,
the man they call "Jayne""

Spiff
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Ooh, dueling strat guides, me likee.


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm

ketigid
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awp832 wrote:
with all due respect to clearly the best writer on the internet.  If I'm going to write a strategy guide -or part of one-,  I'd prefer to do it myself.  Maybe it will have some mistakes,  I tend to comma splice,  but I don't expect those reading are looking for a literary masterpiece.  They'll be looking for advice, suggestions, or insights on the game,  and that I can provide.

Such intense comma splice... Must resist...  8)

McBehrer
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Well, with all due respect to he who is obviously far more important than anyone else, and therefore was the only one anyone was talking to, Spiff never asked you specifically. He asked the forum as a whole.

I also never asked you specifically. You don't have to help if you don't want to. I figured that it would be more helpful to have ONE strategy guide that everyone has weighed in on than several differing, conflicting, and possibly incomplete guides, but if you would rather have the recognition of being the one to make the guide than actually be helpful, that's your prerogative.

Also, I didn't think to include alt-forms. Duly noted.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Matchstickman
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With all due respect McBehrer but I dismiss any of the strategy tips that you post on these forums because of the 'undeclared' house rules in your first few posts.

On topic, I'm happy to read over other's submissions as a proof reader (or similar) but I am not the guy to write a guide, I'm more reactive in my play than planning ahead.


Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all

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Spiff
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I can't imagine how having fewer strategy guides would be better than having more, so I welcome McBehrer's along with anyone else who has the creative itch to write something that might help a newcomer to the game.

Weren't there two guides posted here last night (Tachyon and someone else) that are now gone?  I'd swear I read, enjoyed, and even replied to them but I don't see them anymore.


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm

Matchstickman
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Spiff wrote:
Weren't there two guides posted here last night (Tachyon and someone else) that are now gone?  I'd swear I read, enjoyed, and even replied to them but I don't see them anymore.

You're looking in the wrong section of the forum Spiff, they're in the Rules & Gameplay section
Tachyon
Visionary


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flamethrower49
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I figured the Rules and Gameplay section was the appropriate forum for the strategy guides proper.  If that's not the case, should we move them here?

Matchstickman
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I don't see why, it is a Gameplay issue in this case.

(I edited my post to make it clearer I was referring to the confusion in the searching, not the posting; I don't think anyone has broken any unwritten forum rules and done anything 'wrong' in their posting)


Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all

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McBehrer
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Undeclared house rules? Do tell. I don't have any that I know of that would impact strategies at all.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

McBehrer
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Spiff wrote:
I can't imagine how having fewer strategy guides would be better than having more, so I welcome McBehrer's along with anyone else who has the creative itch to write something that might help a newcomer to the game.

Weren't there two guides posted here last night (Tachyon and someone else) that are now gone?  I'd swear I read, enjoyed, and even replied to them but I don't see them anymore.

Well, it wasn't that having fewer was automatically better than having more, but rather that having everyone contribute to the same one would make sure that it hit all the points and didn't miss anything. Having several people make their own would scatter all the information out into several guides, whereas having the same info in the same guide would be more concise and easy to read.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Matchstickman
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McBehrer wrote:
Undeclared house rules? Do tell. I don't have any that I know of that would impact strategies at all.

McBehrer wrote:
Well, what my friends have always done is kept a counter of how many bursts Tachyon has so when her trash is shuffled into her deck she won't lose them.


Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all

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McBehrer
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you said ruleS.

And that was less of a house rule and more of a faulty understanding of how the game worked. Since joining the forum and talking with everyone (also spending more time with the game) I have developed a much more complete and accurate understanding of the game and its rules.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Spiff
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Quote:
If that's not the case, should we move them here?

Don't move them on my account.  I thought I looked for them over there and couldn't find them, but obviously I'm just dum. :)


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm

McBehrer
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Well, here you go. I don't actually have any CONTENT yet, but I have put together the template upon which all of my hero guide sections will be based. Feel free to provide any input or advice or whatever.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1UXb2oXh0SXN09aOUpTV1E2ams


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Spiff
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I dig it.  I like that it will have advanced tactics as its own section so that a newcomer can skim it when they're just starting out but come back to it once they feel they've mastered the basics.  The informal tone in both McBehrer's and flamethrower's guides makes reading them fun.  I'm very much looking forward to learning all the stuff I'm sure I'm overlooking by reading these guides.


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm

ketigid
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Matchstickman wrote:
With all due respect McBehrer but I dismiss any of the strategy tips that you post on these forums because of the 'undeclared' house rules in your first few posts.

On topic, I'm happy to read over other's submissions as a proof reader (or similar) but I am not the guy to write a guide, I'm more reactive in my play than planning ahead.

I kinda agree with Matchstickman on the undeclared house rules part, so I will also add some of my observations.

McBehrer wrote:
Yeah, I'm just going to change her power to "look at the top card of the environment deck; either put it back on top of the environment deck, play it, or discard it."

McBehrer wrote:
Ah. Well, I never had the issue of Close-quarters combat. (My house rules are that cards that let you choose damage type like Twist the Ether and Grease Monkey Fist trump mandatory type changes, like the vats or CQC, regardless of the order in which they are played. Still, I don't think CQC ever even came up. Also, it MAY not have been Megalopolis. In fact, it was probably Primalis.)

McBehrer wrote:
I refer you to the last post there. "It's your game. Do what you want with it." H = however many heroes you have. If I play with 2 heroes, I'll set it to 2. It is none of your business, so kindly refrain from telling me how to play.

McBehrer
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Well... a few things.

First, the operative word was undeclared. Most of those were declared, and therefore irrelevant.

As for the H=2 thing, I still stand by the rulebook SPECIFICALLY saying "H is ALWAYS equal to the number of heroes." It gives the specific examples of "with 3 heroes it is 3" and "players can play with multiple heroes each," but nowhere does it say you HAVE to. If you play with 2 heroes, it is 2. If you play with 6 heroes, it is 6. So really, you're just wrong about that one.

Furthermore, I am writing the guide without relying on house rules. I slightly change a couple things, yes, but I'm not stupid. I can tell when something I am doing is a house rule, and I won't assume the readers are using the same ones. Honestly, I find it kind of insulting that you would assume that I am incapable of doing so.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Tegulus
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McBehrer wrote:
Well... a few things.

First, the operative word was undeclared. Most of those were declared, and therefore irrelevant.

As for the H=2 thing, I still stand by the rulebook SPECIFICALLY saying "H is ALWAYS equal to the number of heroes." It gives the specific examples of "with 3 heroes it is 3" and "players can play with multiple heroes each," but nowhere does it say you HAVE to. If you play with 2 heroes, it is 2. If you play with 6 heroes, it is 6. So really, you're just wrong about that one.

Except that you are conveniently ignoring that the game is for 3-5 players, and thus 3-5 heroes. The rules say that if you want to play with two people, you should each play two heroes. So, H is necessarily 3-5...if you want to get technical. ;)

Personally, I like the idea of using the H calculations to play duos or solo games. As long as the calculation goes to a minimum of one, it seems like it would be alright. I'd also love to see how the H mechanic scales up to a horde of heroes, maybe against multiple villains. :o

Quote:
Furthermore, I am writing the guide without relying on house rules. I slightly change a couple things, yes, but I'm not stupid. I can tell when something I am doing is a house rule, and I won't assume the readers are using the same ones. Honestly, I find it kind of insulting that you would assume that I am incapable of doing so.

I think you are aware of the house rules you are using. The trouble is, in your posts, you are not always clear about it. And you often come off as flippant and cavalier about your house rules when contributing to discussions about gameplay. And, since the gameplay discussions are about play within the rules, I think that is why some people are somewhat concerned.

Still, they are making assumptions based on your first few weeks on the forums. I was reserving judgment on your strategy guides until I saw them. There is room enough on the forums for several different strategy guides. If we get enough, they might even need their own section.  :)

Spiff
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If McBehrer wants to write a guide full of house rules, who cares?  As long as that's stated in the guide up front, it won't hurt anything.  I don't think we should be jumping on anyone who's in the mood to do something creative.  If the guide comes out and it's got inaccuracies vs. the core rules, we can point that out, but it'll still be McBehrer's own creative work to do with as he pleases.  If you feel strongly that something he's written is wrong, then write your own.  That's how free speech works in the U.S. :)


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm

McBehrer
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Tegulus wrote:
Except that you are conveniently ignoring that the game is for 3-5 players, and thus 3-5 heroes. The rules say that if you want to play with two people, you should each play two heroes. So, H is necessarily 3-5...if you want to get technical. ;)

Except that YOU are conveniently ignoring that the game is for TWO to five players, as indicated by the boxes for both sets.

And besides that, the ONE game I did that was to win a pair of achievements, "Bring your daughter to work day" and "2-man army," playing as Legacy and Young Legacy. The reason I did that at all is because of the story challenges presented on the OFFICIAL SITE. If they hadn't wanted it to be possible to play with 2 heroes, they wouldn't have explicitly suggested we do it.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Tegulus
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McBehrer wrote:

Tegulus wrote:
Except that you are conveniently ignoring that the game is for 3-5 players, and thus 3-5 heroes. The rules say that if you want to play with two people, you should each play two heroes. So, H is necessarily 3-5...if you want to get technical. ;)

Except that YOU are conveniently ignoring that the game is for TWO to five players, as indicated by the boxes for both sets.

And besides that, the ONE game I did that was to win a pair of achievements, "Bring your daughter to work day" and "2-man army," playing as Legacy and Young Legacy. The reason I did that at all is because of the story challenges presented on the OFFICIAL SITE. If they hadn't wanted it to be possible to play with 2 heroes, they wouldn't have explicitly suggested we do it.

Wow. You're totally right.  :o
What on Earth was I looking at?

I'm sorry for that. I realize now that my tone was a bit off. :(

And, a careful reread of both rulebooks finds neither hide nor hair of the "two players each play two heroes" thing. Real question here: Where did I get that from? I've been playing it that way since day one. I must have gotten it from somewhere. Anyone have any idea where that first appeared?

Matchstickman
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You got it from the rule book.

The rule book (for the base game) on page 10 wrote:
The game is optimized for four players, but three or five player teams make relatively little difference in game difficulty. Two experienced players can play a two player version of the game if one or both of them play as two heroes each.

The story challenge "2-man army" is a specific overriding of the rules, just as certain cards break the rules, it is not the base rules.

The second story challenge mentioned "bring-your-daughter-to-work day" is not in the 'official' release on the >games website, I have no idea where it comes from, though it is a cool idea!


Stop lurking, it makes you look like a villain target
When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all

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McBehrer
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3 or 5 heroes makes little difference in game difficulty, and they CAN play a two-player version of the game with multiple heroes. It does NOT say that they have to.

Also, I may have got the daughter one from a user SUGGESTING it as a challenge, and not one of the official ones. It was a while back. Hard to remember.

And the one game where I did the 2-man army was the only one I set H to 2. (Again, because the rule book specifically said that that is what you should do. H is always equal to the number of heroes.) Even if using 2 heroes is only officially sanctioned for that one achievement, I think it is entirely logical to say that H = 2 should be the same way.

Furthermore, Christopher (I think. One of the red-star guys) said that it was a perfectly legitimate option to change H to a higher or lower number if the fight is too hard or too easy for you. I was playing against the Matriarch, so I deemed it necessary.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector

Ronway
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Tegulus wrote:
And, a careful reread of both rulebooks finds neither hide nor hair of the "two players each play two heroes" thing. Real question here: Where did I get that from? I've been playing it that way since day one. I must have gotten it from somewhere. Anyone have any idea where that first appeared?

There was a podcast where Christopher had stated it and he also says in the new rulebook for Enhanced Edition will have it. Though the Two Man Army thing was also prior to the H mechanic, the core game is able to play two heroes without actually causing any issues. But i'm not fighting against anyone who wants to play with two heroes, playing a game your own way is entirely up to who ever is the one doing so. It's not like the board game police will show up and arrest anyone not playing by rules.

Tegulus
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Thanks, Matchstickman. I guess my reread of the game rules were not as careful as I thought. :)

clarinetnerd
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Whoever's google doc that was, can I contribute to your (or someone's) guide?  I love the game and am pretty experienced with a few heros in particular...


"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

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I'd also be happy to contribute to a user-created strategy guide. :)


"One for Wrath... and one for Ruin."

Spiff
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Anyone can make one, so dive right in.  McBehrer has posted the template he intends to use for his guide, and flamethrower has been posting guides to individual heroes as he makes them.  I don't think there's a central place where multiple people are contributing to a guide doc, but if you wanted to start one, that'd probably be great.


Spiff's SotM site: www.spiffworld.com/sotm

McBehrer
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clarinetnerd wrote:
Whoever's google doc that was, can I contribute to your (or someone's) guide?  I love the game and am pretty experienced with a few heros in particular...

Yes, please do!
I'm not that experienced with a few of the heroes (Fanaticcoughcough) so any insight to them would be welcome.

... and yes, I DO plan on continuing this. I've been distracted as of late. I'm going to try and push through getting at least one hero done per day.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
-- Trajector