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stubborn solidity question

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kazaasaky
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stubborn solidity question

when i play fast power stubborn solidity in a land with a dahan (defend,1).

and i add 1 dahan to that land  by event card effect (like coming on age), now that land 2 dahan.

 

in this case, what is the defend  value that land have? 1? 2?

 

Ironeye
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Land-targeting power set their Defend value when they are used, so the land has Defend 1.

kazaasaky
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thank you!

where can i find 'power set their Defend value when they are used' in rulebook?

Matchstickman
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It's a general rule of the game, you generate effects at the time you target/use the power, not before and not after (unless the power says otherwise). If there are two Explorers in a land and you can destroy upto 3, you don't get to destroy a third one later on if something moves it in there. You also would not remove something you generated if a condition changes e.g. a targeted power generates defend 2 for each Dahan in a land, you do not lower that defend if the Dahan leave that land, it persists until the end of the turn.

The closest we have (that I can find) to an FAQ is this


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McBehrer
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Doesn't Stubborn Solidity say you can't change the number of Dahan? Or is that a different card...


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dpt
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McBehrer wrote:
Doesn't Stubborn Solidity say you can't change the number of Dahan? Or is that a different card...

Good question, but the Dahan cannot be moved out of the land targeted by Stubborn Solidity; they can be moved in:
Can Dahan be moved into a land affected by Stubborn Solidity?

McBehrer
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Yeah but that's moving, not adding. They specifically cited Coming of Age, which creates a new one.


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Trajector
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Huhhhhh... I've been playing this generally wrong, and evaluating Defense at the time of Ravage. Okay!

McBehrer
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No, I think the Defend changes with the number of Dahan. I just don't think you can add more, specifically with Stubborn Solidity.


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Trajector
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I'm looking at this:

Matchstickman wrote:
The closest we have (that I can find) to an FAQ is this

I had been playing that you execute the power to generate the effect, but you evaluate the total amount of defense at the time that damage happens (usually during ravages). So if, say, an Event changed the number of Dahan - in general, not specifically related to Stubborn Solidity - you would get more or less defense. Based on that FAQ, I guess I was wrong.

dpt
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Trajector wrote:
So if, say, an Event changed the number of Dahan - in general, not specifically related to Stubborn Solidity - you would get more or less defense.

This is correct. The one exception are things with a global effect, notably Encompassing Ward (FAQ linked).

dpt
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McBehrer wrote:
Yeah but that's moving, not adding. They specifically cited Coming of Age, which creates a new one.

You're still not affecting the existing Dahan. This is allowed.

Trajector
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I'm confused. Let's say you use a power that says "Defend 1 per Dahan in target land" on a land with 2 Dahan, and then an event adds one Dahan. You're saying the total amount of defense in that land is now 3? The Trees and Stones Speak of War FAQ seems to say that the amount of defense remains 2.

McBehrer
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Dpt, it doesn't say "the existing Dahan can't be affected." It says "the number of Dahan in target land cannot be changed." Adding more changes the number. Therefore, I think you can't do it.


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catDreaming
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To actually put the card text:

"Defend 1 per Dahan.
Dahan in target land cannot be changed.
( When they would be damaged, destroed, removed, replaced, or moved, don't. )"

Seems pretty straightforward to me. When Stubborn Solidity activates, you count the number of Dahan in that land, and Defend that land for that much until the turn ends. At the same time, that land gains 'Dahan in this land cannot be changed' as specified on the card until end of turn. Nothing stops Dahan from being added to the land.


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Ameena
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Yeah that sounds like "You can't do anything to change the Dahan that are already here, but you can add more, at which point those ones also can't be changed".


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McBehrer
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Ok, that wording is slightly different than how I had remembered it.

I remembered it as "the NUMBER of Dahan in target land cannot be changed." That does make more sense, with the correct wording.


McBehrer is the sole winner of this game... And McBehrer, I would step carefully should you find your way down dark alleys. More than one vote said simply, "McBehrer must die."

McBehrer confirmed to be Biomancer!
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