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Finder of Paths Unseen - Rule Questions

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robb8888
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Finder of Paths Unseen - Rule Questions

I've been playing around with the preliminary/public-release/playtesting versions some of the preview spirits, and I was waiting to tackle Finder of Paths Unseen last, because it looks the most complicated.  Two things immediately came up:

1.  Since the Oceans are considered Coastal Westlands when Ocean's Hungry Grasp is playing, can Finder use its special growth option to "add a presence in any land" to add a Presence in the Ocean?  If so, and Finder then uses its innate to "moves" a being from one of its lands to the Ocean, does that drown the Invader for Ocean to eat?  

2.  ...of course, if that is the case, that would likely trigger "Responsibilities to the Dead," which is my bigger question:

RESPONSIBILITIES TO THE DEAD.  After one of your Powers destroys 1 or more Dahan/Invaders, or triggers their destruction by moving themdestroy 1 of your Presence.

Under the rules as playtested so far, what does it mean to "trigger their destruction by moving them"?  I would assume that teleporting an Invader to the middle of the Ocean where he is then drowned would certainly count.  But let's say Finder moves an Invader in Fast Phase -- does that "trigger" the Invader's destruction...

  • ...if another Spirit destroys that Invader with a Power later in Slow Phase?
  • ...if an Event or Fear card happens that has (ex:) Beasts destroy the Invader?
  • ...if the Invader moves to a land where it Ravages, and is killed by Dahan?
    ...(although I can't think of any off the top of my head right now), what if some Event card Fear card destroys a certain number/type of Invader regardless of what land they're in (ex: "Each player may destroy 1 Explorer," or "Destroy 1 Town on each Board"?
  • What if the Invader would have been destroyed anyway?  Ex: a Spirit plays a power in Fast that would have done enough damage in the target land to destroy the invader, but instead Finder moves the invader elsewhere...and an Event card or a Slow power then destroys the Invader anyway? 

Essentially, does it mean that once Finder moves something, and it gets destroyed, that makes it Finder's "fault," and it has to pay the price, unless you can somehow that the thing in question would have been destroyed even if it hadn't been moved?   If so, then it would seem like Finder might play really well with BODAN -- Finder could "move" beings to where BODAN could dream-destroy them, causing lots of fear without destroying Finder's presence.

dpt
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1. No. The Ocean is only a land for particular purposes (Powers and Blight). Growth is not on that list, so Finder cannot place Presence in the Ocean during Growth. There are plenty of other ways to get Presence in the Ocean, however.

1a. Yes, moving an Invader to the Ocean does trigger its drowning.

2. On your examples (including the one in text): Yes, moving an Invader to the Ocean to Drown it does trigger Responsibilities of the Dead. On the others:

  • No, does not trigger.
  • No, does not trigger.
  • No, does not trigger.
  • Irrelevant, since none of those would trigger.

Basically it's only Finder's "fault" if it happens immediately.

(Terminology is still a bit in flux, but one concept that's being formalized in this expansion is the notion of one action "triggering" off of another, the way Vengeance of the Dead or Drowning triggers off of certain other effects.)

ras906
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When using Lay Paths They Cannot Help But Walk, can you target different pairs of lands with each elemental threshold? Also, assuming you can move backwards with presence placement, what is the point of connecting +1 range, water, air, earth, to +1 energy/turn or +1 card plays/turn. Those would never be good paths to take.

dpt
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(Reminder for future users: This is about the PnP version, not whatever is eventually published. I'm looking at what robb8888 posted in these forums.)

QWhen using Lay Paths They Cannot Help But Walk, can you target different pairs of lands with each elemental threshold?

A: Yes, since it targets yourself and says "from one of your lands to another".

Q: Assuming you can move backwards with presence placement, what is the point of connecting +1 range, water, air, earth, to +1 energy/turn or +1 card plays/turn.

A: You're correct, in that version those links are superfluous.