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Three quick questions

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Benhimself
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Three quick questions

(1) When you have Threshold with Powerstorm, is it "choose one power, copy it by paying it's cost, then choose three powers (possibly including the previously chosen power) and copy them as well by paying their cost?" I'd assume for balancing purposes (and simplicity) you probably shouldn't get the initial 'repeat' again as well, except it didn't have an instead on it.

(2) I know normally you can't move your presence onto an ocean with Ocean's Hungry Grasp because it only counts as a land for powers and blight, but with Flow Like Water, which is itself a power, can you move your presence into an ocean with OHG's presence in it? What happens to it (assuming you're not Ocean's Hungry Grasp, of course)?

(3) We were planning on playing the Second Wave scenario, and then one of the other players asked "So hypothetically speaking, what happens if we hit threshold on Cast Down Into The Briny Deep?" To which I was like... "Uh.... good question? Maybe the Invaders just... don't come back, given the circumstances? Especially since we can't set up four players on three boards?" (It also occurs to me in hindsight, a possible ruling might be that the waters recede back over the decades, return the board at the end of the game as if everything on it was destroyed.)

Chaosmancer
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1) Going from memory without checking my cards, I believe Powerstorm with the threshold has 3 repeats, not 4. So, you do not get the initial repeat, you repeat three powers instead

 

2) I don't think flow like water allows you to place in Ocean's Grasp's Oceans. I think the only card that does allow that is Indomitable Claim, which says to ignore your normal restrictions. There should be an FAQ for this one, if I had the time to search for it. As for what happens, you have prescence in the ocean, I think that's it.

 

3) Good Question, I have no idea

Arcanist Lupus
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dpt
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(1) To check card text, the best reference is the SICK project. I believe the intention was to give 3 total repeats (and that is how I played it in playtesting myself), but indeed the wording is ambiguous because it doesn't say "instead".

 

(3) is indeed a good question!

 

 

tedv
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It's definitely 3 total repeats, not 4. And yes, Powerstorm should probably have "instead" written on it somewhere in the threshold block, but we're still talking through some of the formal wording for these kinds of cases.

Eric R
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1. As Ted said.

2. Yes. any Power which adds/moves Presence can get your Presence into an Ocean.

3. The Scenario rules simply don't handle this, so there's no "strict rules interpretation" - instead, there are a variety of possible answers, depending what you care most about:

  • Theme: the 4th board remains sunk. The next game has only 3 players. (The Island's reduced size means many Spirits were destroyed.)
  • Balance: the Setup for the second game restores the 4th board.
  • Feeling of "we did something weird and distinctive; the result should be weird and distinctive": the 4th board remains sunk. For the next game, designate one board as "the active board". Two players start on that board(†). All Invader Actions and "On Each Board"s happen twice on that board. (Note: I have no idea if this is balanced. It probably is in some hypothetical average sense, but it creates a lot of double-stakes situations where taking care of them is super-good / not taking care of them is super-bad, which if they can be addressed by a single Power Card will give advantage to the Spirits. Though specific problems might get extra-brutal - eg, England's special loss condition on Levels 3+, when a single land might Build 4-6 times in one Invader Phase.)

 

Benhimself
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Eric R wrote:

2. Yes. any Power which adds/moves Presence can get your Presence into an Ocean.

 

Huh! So if Ocean's Hungry Grasp leaves that ocean, what happens to your presence? Does it stick around or get removed? If it sticks around, can it still be used to target things even though it is in something that technically doesn't count as a land at the moment?

Arcanist Lupus
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Given Ted's post in the thread I linked to earlier, I'd guess that the presence stays, but no longer is considered in or adjacent to any lands.


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Eric R
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Benhimself wrote:

Eric R wrote:

2. Yes. any Power which adds/moves Presence can get your Presence into an Ocean.

 Huh! So if Ocean's Hungry Grasp leaves that ocean, what happens to your presence? Does it stick around or get removed? If it sticks around, can it still be used to target things even though it is in something that technically doesn't count as a land at the moment?

If OHG leaves the ocean but remains on the board, nothing changes. "Oceans in Play" applies for as long as OHG has Presence on that board... which will usually be the rest of the game. But not always.

If OHG loses all their Presence on the board, the game-state careens out into undefined territory. (Whoops.) The temporary ruling I made a few weeks ago was "leave stuff there, but it can't be used" - I've been mulling over a more definitive answer since. I'm leaning heavily towards "If the Ocean stops being a provisional-land, anything therein is destroyed" - it avoids a bunch of complex follow-on questions. The only reason I haven't finalized it is that I'm still thinking about whether it works acceptably for Blight (and if not, what I want to have happen instead).

Arcanist Lupus
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Sunk beneath the waves like it is for Cast Down Into the Briny Deep?

 

This is going to be a pretty rare corner case, so perfect balance isn't critical - just logical behavior and flavor.


"Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?"

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Benhimself
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Eric R wrote:

If OHG leaves the ocean but remains on the board, nothing changes. "Oceans in Play" applies for as long as OHG has Presence on that board... which will usually be the rest of the game. But not always.

Wait wait wait, it's just if the presence is on the board, it doesn't have to be specifically in that ocean? Man, I've been playing OHG incredibly wrong.

tedv
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I like the ruling of treating it like Cast Down into Briny Depths was cast on that ocean-- everything is destroyed and blight is permanently removed from the game, not returned to the blight card.