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Weekly One-Shot Week 3 -- "Rescue" Under the Sea

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mightyschoop
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Weekly One-Shot Week 3 -- "Rescue" Under the Sea

"Rescue" Under the Sea

Miss Information vs. Scholar, Ra, Haka, Fanatic in the Ruins of Atlantis

 

Go!


mightyschoop
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Got my Mint cover (local play - I don't do online), but this one was tough.

With no way to mine Miss Info's deck, I just had to wait for the 3 clues to come out, and they took a while - Your mileage may vary, since Diversionary Tactics involves a shuffle, and MigrantP has confirmed that these don't necessary provide the same outcome for everyone. 

At the end, everyone was down except Haka. I did most of the dirty work with a few big hits - a Haka of Battle boosted Crush with Imbued Fire in play for 11, followed by a Fire Blast (incapping Ra on the retaliation) and a Rampage the next turn. 

 

I did make a couple of mistakes in my game and was tempted to hit that undo button... I accidentally dropped the big damage from Inferno on an "Old Lady" who was immune due to Misplaced Memo, and I boosted Haka's damage with incapped Fanatic just before Miss Info made him hurt himself. Sloppy, Schoop....

 

Powerhound_2000
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Scholar looked confused as Ra and Fanatic went down and he hadn't been scratched. Certainly a rough one as you have to play a waiting game as Krakens amass. 


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Matchstickman
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Spoilered on the off chance anyone wants to watch the twitch stream Ronway and I did without knowing our result (Stupid I know but there we go).

Mint! Judicious use of the Krakens to beat her down, i think the Environment deck was fixed this week but the Villain deck was randomised after the first shuffle. All the heroes went down except The Scholar, and he was at near max HP! However I think Haka did the most damage to Missi, with a double Haka of Battle for 12 points! Ra threw a couple of points of damage at Missi but was mostly there to put out Ongoings for destruction fodder. And Fanatic was there. 


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MigrantP
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The random seed is fixed this week as it has been in all the games so far.


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AlexxKay
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The random *seed* is fixed, but if the player can cause different numbers of random numbers to be pulled before a certain event (such as the Diversionary Tactics being discussed), then players will experience different outcomes.  Those outcomes will come from a fixed finite set, but will still not "provide the same outcome for everyone."

MigrantP
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Yes, I was responding to Matchstickman's hidden text. All of the decks are fixed at the start of the game, not just the environment.


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Matchstickman
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So the shuffle that occurs right at the beginning is not actually a shuffle? It's an "ordering of the deck for the one shot", is that right?


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Donner
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I would like to say I hated this one-shot.  I had to do it four or five times to finally kill her.  And even then Haka and Fanatic were hanging on by a thread.


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phantaskippy
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So right now Miss Information's Explosion in the lab is forcing two heroes with 2 cards in play and 1 hero with 1 card in play to all destroy a card.  This is going to guarantee a loss.

Awesome way to lose mint.

Or not.  Was freaking close to it.  Got MI 1 point lower than scholar.  Kraken's did the rest.

Killswitch
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My first near-mint on solo play. Bah.


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Know when to fold 'em,
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MigrantP
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Matchstickman wrote:

So the shuffle that occurs right at the beginning is not actually a shuffle? It's an "ordering of the deck for the one shot", is that right?

The only random things in Sentinels are shuffling and a couple of specific cards (e.g. Indigo Pin). We (like all games) use a pseudo-random number generator (RNG). The RNG must always be initialized with a seed, and then you can just keep asking it for a random number. Given a specific seed, the sequence of numbers the RNG will produce will always be identical. This is a very useful property for various reasons. 

When you start a regular game of Sentinels, the RNG is initialized with a seed based on the current time. The decks are shuffled in order: villain, heroes, environment. The villain's setup instructions are performed (which often includes another shuffle) and then the game begins.

Let's look at how a deck is shuffled. There are a lot of shuffling algorithms, but they all require a bunch of numbers from the RNG. We use Fisher-Yates if you're interested. Let's say you need just one number for each card in the shuffle. To shuffle the villain deck, you get 25 numbers from the RNG. Those numbers are going to be determined by what the RNG's seed is, and where you are in the sequence. If I take a RNG seeded with "1" and ask it for 25 numbers, I'll get a completely different sequence than if I had seeded the RNG with "2" (and a different sequence from the next 25 numbers, too).

So from all the above, you can see that if everyone's game has the same seed, then everyone's RNG will be initialized the same. And since the villain, heroes, and environments are the same (and in the same order, importantly), the sequences of numbers used for the initial setup & shuffling will also be all the same. Therefore the result of the shuffling algorithm will be decks that are in the same orders for everyone.

If you make all the same decisions in one such game as someone else does, you will end up with exactly the same result. However, that's not often going to be what happens. Maybe you destroy a villain target and it goes in the villain trash, and I don't. Our villain decks are still the same, and suppose it comes around and the villain plays a card (on both of us) that shuffles their trash into their deck. On your game, it's shuffling 1 more card than in my game, so it gets 1 more random number. That causes two differences which will make our games diverge: our villain decks have different numbers of cards and different orders, and your RNG is ahead of mine by 1 number. The next time something shuffles, our sequences of numbers will be offset, causing a totally different order. And things just get more and more different from there.

So to answer your question, it is actually a shuffle. The universe just happens to be configured the same for you as everyone else =)


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MarioFanaticXV
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It's like a time machine!

Personally, I didn't like this one; the early Leaking Rooms made it so that the early turns were pretty much nothing, and Miss Information is already a character that's pretty much just a waiting game for the first part. Then again, Miss Information is one of the two villains I just hate with a passion regardless of the circumstances, so I'm probably biased.
 

jajd2c
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Rough one.

I actually managed to get mint on my tablet (sheer luck, most likely), but when I tried on my Steam account, I got stomped the first time around and had to settle for near-mint.

Phantom5613
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This one is bull.

That is all.

riff.freelance
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NM for me. Scholar was the last man standing. It really did come down to having the environment beat her up for you.

Silverleaf
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This one-shot reminded me exactly how un-fun Miss Information is. Lost with her on 1HP, not sure I'll bother with a rematch.

My inexperience with her clearly showed too. I spent half the game clicking on cards to see what they do.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

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MarioFanaticXV wrote:

It's like a time machine!Personally, I didn't like this one; the early Leaking Rooms made it so that the early turns were pretty much nothing, and Miss Information is already a character that's pretty much just a waiting game for the first part. Then again, Miss Information is one of the two villains I just hate with a passion regardless of the circumstances, so I'm probably biased. 

Since it is a waiting game the early leaking rooms were a welcome thing to have instead of them coming out after she flipped.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
phantaskippy
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MigrantP wrote:

. . . So to answer your question, it is actually a shuffle. The universe just happens to be configured the same for you as everyone else =)

Do you pick the number with intent for the resulting initial card order?  If so how far do you look?  /Do you account for those shuffles and look at all at what are likely reorders from most likely hero choices and the resulting shuffles?

Mostly I want to know how much is intent for early game play and how much is egalitarian randomness.

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Got mint with Scholar as the last one standing.

 

Tough, and I made a couple of mistakes--like accidentally skipping Haka's incap turn (which made me forego a much-needed extra card play for Scholar)....I almost hit the rewind, but didn't.

Once Scholar had more HP than Miss Info, the Krakens really helped! (but the road to that situation was long and frustrating).

 

Fun!  Thanks!

pwatson1974
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Mint for me. Only the Scholar standing at the end and everyone else keeping him alive while Ra killed off Clues and the Scholar hid behind Flesh to Iron and Expect the Worst. Kept bringing out the Diplocatic Envoy or Old Lady to let the KRakens eat them rather than me. But I agree Miss Information is not fun in general and I'll probably skip the online version.


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Etheria
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Knew that this would be my first near mint. Got boned the first time over, but I knew I would. I just cannot do Miss Information.

 

Here's hoping it is not the Chairman in Rook City next week!

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Mint! I'm glad I'd been playing a bunch against Miss Information lately - I had only been playing her with 3 heroes, and hadn't realized what a vastly different game it was with 4-5 until I saw some comments in the forum.

I made one misplay, but didn't go back to correct it. Won with Haka and the Scholar both on 15+ health. (everyone else KO'd, of course)


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Julia
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I got a Fine condition, and I'm just glad that there isn't a "Used as a napkin" condition, because if there was, I would have earned it!

I must have lost 5 games before I finally managed to put Miss Information down. I've never been very good at dealing with her anyway, and I probably still haven't really gotten the hang of playing the Scholar.

I think the only reason I did win in the end was that I had more or less memorised the order the cards came in in each deck.


Semper ludens.

Silverleaf
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Tried again. Urgh. TPK with Miss Stupidface on 34HP. I really really hate denial effects.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

Killswitch
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The thing that bothers me about these is there's no way to rectify your losses. Only one chance for a mint :/

Would be nice if they had conditions such as "win with X amount of HP," or "with X heroes left standing." I hate being a completionist.


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Know when to fold 'em,
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And when to turn loose!

MigrantP
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phantaskippy wrote:

Do you pick the number with intent for the resulting initial card order?  If so how far do you look?  /Do you account for those shuffles and look at all at what are likely reorders from most likely hero choices and the resulting shuffles?Mostly I want to know how much is intent for early game play and how much is egalitarian randomness.

I'm looking for a good difficulty balance, and a lot of that comes out of the state of the game at the start of the first villain turn. Let's take the Ambuscade game for example. I wanted him to start cloaked, with two reactive platings and charged attacks out. There are many random seeds that have that start, so I play one or two and see how the difficulty feels.


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MigrantP
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Killswitch wrote:

The thing that bothers me about these is there's no way to rectify your losses. Only one chance for a mint :/Would be nice if they had conditions such as "win with X amount of HP," or "with X heroes left standing." I hate being a completionist.

The intention is for Mint to be a special and rare thing, not merely a reward for persistence. You can get that in pretty much any game, we wanted to do something a bit different.


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Silverleaf
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 It's bothering me that I won't be able to recomplete earlier one-shots that I'll be missing when I replace my faulty iPad. :(


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

MigrantP
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If you can back up and restore to the new iPad, they will be preserved.


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Pydro
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You can do old ones, just not for mint.


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Looks like I'm not getting Mint this week, and I don't think I'll be getting any other cover either. I had forgotten what a heinously awful and unfun game Miss Information was.


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I got Mint.  That's sum and total of the highlights of this game.  I had only played MI once before and didn't see all of her cards in play.  The one card where I had to reveal one card of one hero and toss everything that matched a keyword threw me.  I picked Ra.  That was a pretty bad choice as it was Blazing Tornado - an Ongoing AND Limited.  So most of my cards got pitched.  Yuck.  Then it was mostly a waiting game for the clues to come out, hoping Atlantis didn't do too much damage.  Those Kraken mostly smacked around the diversions, but Fanatic got a couple of hits and eventually went down, followed by Haka and Ra (bad idea to charge up Haka for Battle when the next attack is a self-attack).  Scholar was a super tank here, only suffering a few points of damage.  Know When to Turn Loose softened MI for the last hit from another Kraken.

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phantaskippy
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Honolulu Blue wrote:
 (bad idea to charge up Haka for Battle when the next attack is a self-attack).  

I did the same thing, actually did it a second time when I used Fanatic's incap to boost Haka's damage.

Once the second Kraken came out I realized the only thing that really mattered in the match was getting Miss information lower in hp than one of my heroes.  Pulled that off the last turn with a great string of occurances.

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MigrantP wrote:

If you can back up and restore to the new iPad, they will be preserved.

That's good to know, thanks!

The problem's with the screen so I should be able to back up just fine.


Just assume I'm always doing that.

Damn it, Ronway!

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I can confirm this as I did the weekly one shot the first week and had gotten all unlocks completed before Christmas.  I backed up my iPad and restored it to the new one I got for Christmas.  The only piece I had to do was redownload the season one pass and it was all still there.   The redownload of the season pass likely wasn't required to view the results from the first week but I didn't look at that part until after that.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
broccoli
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I'll just echo what others have said: this week's one-shot reminds me why I rarely play Miss Information.  In particular, I would never never never combine Miss Information with Ruins of Atlantis.  The reason being the combination of Explosion in the Lab and Toxic Seaweed.  Once one person has discarded their hand, they immediately become the "best" candidate for future discards: translation - 1 person doesn't have any fun.


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As a single player game I found this to be enjoyable.  Now I could see this being frustrating sitting at a table but this isn't the only game I've played where the villain/environment frustrated me.  


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
Killswitch
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broccoli wrote:

I'll just echo what others have said: this week's one-shot reminds me why I rarely play Miss Information.  In particular, I would never never never combine Miss Information with Ruins of Atlantis.  The reason being the combination of Explosion in the Lab and Toxic Seaweed.  Once one person has discarded their hand, they immediately become the "best" candidate for future discards: translation - 1 person doesn't have any fun.

If that weren't bad enough, Missing Resources is a thing. And probably a card I despise more than Devastating Aurora. And quite possibly 95% of all villain cards in general.


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Know when to fold 'em,
Know when to hold fast
And when to turn loose!

Powerhound_2000
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Got near mint in MP version with UXM266.   As others have seen no two play throughs are the same once she starts some her reshuffling a few turns in and she just trounced us the first time it felt like.  She even flipped quicker in this game than she did in my local game but the clues she got out wrecked us.  In that case not leaving a diversion out was part of our doom as she kept getting What Doesn't Kill You out getting more card plays before realizing what it did. The second game she still flipped early, while the second Leaking Room was out, but what she played this go around was more manageable. It also helped that there wasn't any concern if we decided to redo a play.   


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
arenson9
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Mint!

 

Luckily, I had not too long ago got interested in pitting Scholar's tanking vs Miss Information to see what he could do. As it turns out, he's quite effective, but has a tough time if he doesn't have someone around to dish out damage. Conveniently, the environment gave us three Krakens.

 

I couldn't figure out a way to keep those Krakens from destroying first Fanatic (who I'd been letting get low in the hopes of a Wrathful Retribution), and then Haka. In retrospect, if I'd managed to Clues differently, I might have been able to keep out diversions to soak the Krakens, while soaking the diversion's attacks using The Scholar, but that would have been pretty complicated.

 

Ended w/ Scholar near full health and Ra at 13. Had one of the best uses I can remember of Excavation. Ra had become the local punching bag for discarding his hand, but used Excavation on Haka's turn, getting a Fire Blast that he then used on Fanatic's turn.


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Attempted this twice.  So, decks are fixed once the challenge has loaded?

Seeing that same hand full of elemental transmutations come up twice almost ... ok deep breath, did not in fact hurl my monitor.

if the only times I can make are always this late/tired, and if the game doesn't allow for a true shuffle/redraw so I can try a new approach next game, I don't expect it'll be good for my health or my relationship to the game as a whole to keep trying these weekly challenges.

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The random number seed is the same. That means the initial state of the decks is the same for everybody on the weekly one-shot. Later shuffles can cause changes depending on exactly what has happened. For example, if Ra plays Summon Staff before Miss Information plays Diversionary Tactics in my game but not in yours, you get a different shuffle for Miss Info than I do.

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We're looking at having a random start to next week's game, so watch out for that =)


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Mint, even though I stupidly destroyed a Clue card before she flipped. Finished with Scholar at 19, everyone else incapped. Fanatic ended up being my discard monkey for the seaweed, while Scholar...didn't do much of anything the first few rounds, then sat under iron and finished her off with Grace Under Fire. I think she only lasted two rounds after she flipped.

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I failed my first attempt, but got it on my second attempt, so Near Mint for me. I had an amusing situation where I sacrificed Ra, Haka, and Fanatic so that the three Krakens could hit Miss Information. It felt so wrong, yet it was so right.

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She called us out for a rescue under the sea and it was the sea that took her down.


Crush your enemies, drive them before you, and laminate their women! - Guise, Prime Wardens #31

 
The Burning Stickman
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Also, somehow she pulled out Diversionary Tactics twice in the same turn the turn she flipped, without turning up any Diversions, which was probably my luckiest break.

Phantom5613
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If you guys are aiming to be f@#$-ing infuriating, then you're succeeding.

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Ended up getting my first near mint. Yeah, like some other posters, I hate Ms. Information with a deep fiery passion. I don't play her as much, and I misread some of her clues causing my nuke attacks with Scholar and Haka to not work. I won the second game because I prioritized killing the Krakens more, and the Atlantean Font of Power played a clue which allowed her to flip earlier. Just not a big fan of Ms. Information.


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Chaosmancer
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Near mint on local, lost the first match.

 

Mint in the online arena, combination of luck and having a solid plan from my previous matches.

 

I don't hate Miss Info, but she is definetly not a first pick villian.

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