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Number of rounds in a tournament game

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arenson9
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Number of rounds in a tournament game

In the discussion about strategy for Legacy in Tactics tournaments, part of one of the posts talked about 'the mid game', which reminded me of something I noticed in watching the PAX East tournament: I don't think there _IS_ a mid game.

 

I don't have hard numbers to back up this impression, but I think most games were completed in 3 rounds at most, and often in just 2. Don't count on a strategy that involves building up and building up or getting into some very particular position that will require a lot of jockeying around. If you're playing against an experience opponent, the game will be over before you get there.


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They took a while to get through those rounds with newer players.  However, even with newer players in the tournaments I really can't recall any game going beyond the third round.  


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Bharryn
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arenson9 wrote:

In the discussion about strategy for Legacy in Tactics tournaments, part of one of the posts talked about 'the mid game', which reminded me of something I noticed in watching the PAX East tournament: I don't think there _IS_ a mid game. I don't have hard numbers to back up this impression, but I think most games were completed in 3 rounds at most, and often in just 2. Don't count on a strategy that involves building up and building up or getting into some very particular position that will require a lot of jockeying around. If you're playing against an experience opponent, the game will be over before you get there.

 

The "mid game" should be considered round 2 in a tournament setting.  Watching most teams play, the first round is largely setting up your strategy and the second round is when the real action happens.  

arenson9
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Bharryn wrote:

 

arenson9 wrote:
In the discussion about strategy for Legacy in Tactics tournaments, part of one of the posts talked about 'the mid game', which reminded me of something I noticed in watching the PAX East tournament: I don't think there _IS_ a mid game. I don't have hard numbers to back up this impression, but I think most games were completed in 3 rounds at most, and often in just 2. Don't count on a strategy that involves building up and building up or getting into some very particular position that will require a lot of jockeying around. If you're playing against an experience opponent, the game will be over before you get there.

 

 The "mid game" should be considered round 2 in a tournament setting.  Watching most teams play, the first round is largely setting up your strategy and the second round is when the real action happens.  

Disagree. Experienced teams will get attacks and even incapacitations in the first round, even the first turn. In our semifinal match in the inaugural tournament we had damaged all three of our opponents by the end of the first round. At the PAX East tournament, teams started banning The Wraith because she was able to hit from so far away, even getting an incapacitation on Unity before Unity had a chance to move.

Now if future tournament maps are more constrained, I might be more inclined to agree with you. The PAX East map, in particular, was wide open.


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Mid-Game simply means the middle portion of the game.  To me the early game is when teams rely on natural starting position cover and LoS obstruction to protect them while they set up their attacks.

End game is the closing turns when you abandon future plans to try to achieve victory right now.

Pax East showed that well, some games nothing happened round 1, others Mid Game was in full swing.

I would say mid gamer is the point where teams engage.  You can engage first turn with Tachyon, or score an incap in the early game with long distance Wraith, Bunker or Unity/Dawn.

When you are relying on starting area defenses for protection and lobbing shots at the enemy from across the map that is early game, esp. if your opponents can't attack you back.

Since citizens and Golems don't carry victory points they can engage without triggering mid-game.

The slow ocelot attack match is a perfect example of a team that didn't leave early game until the end game was on them.  They had an early game and an awkward lurch into end game.

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If you look back at that Dawn, Unity, Ra team they had a great early game strategy and team comp.  They just debated too much and did several things wrongly.

Tornado, Turret Bot and citizens worked great to get damage on the opponent, if they had used that advantage better they could have won without leaving early game, or at least had a huge advantage when early game ended and they had to engage.

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Is there a maximum number of rounds in a tournament game, or do they go on forever until someone wins?


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There is a time limit.  No rounds limit.


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arenson9 wrote:

 

Disagree. Experienced teams will get attacks and even incapacitations in the first round, even the first turn. 

 

While this is true, that typically results from one of several factors.  

1.  Complete lack of cover making long reach characters brutal.  If this is the new norm for tournaments, then teams need to plan accordingly.

2.  Suicide runs.  Tachyon, Swift Bot, and even at one point Legacy have all been observed making tournament suicide runs.  The Tachyon suicide run is brutal and I see a lot more tachyon bans in the future.  The one Legacy suicide run was an utter failure.  Though with a better role it might be viable.  (Note I said "might," as I'm not convinced.)  The Swift Bot suicide run is unlikely to score an incap, but it does cause quite alot of chaos when combined with dropping turret bot in the midst of the enemy.

3.  Gross missteps by your opponent. I would place the fore mentioned Legacy suicide run in this category.  Don't make gross missteps... 'Nuff said

 

That said, very rarely is a game going to be decided in the first turn, and I do not think a plan built around setting up a very succesful turn two is necessarily a bad strategy.  In fact, if your team is built around midrange strikers like Ra, that is pretty much essential.  In a tournament, I question any strategy that depends on getting to turn three.  Skirmishing is not built to reward turtling and slowly developing strategies.  Rather it rewards smartly played aggressiveness.  You have to know the other team's characters and how they are likely to work together.

 

As a result, I do think there is very much a mid game in a tournament venue, and if a player has not considered how their powers are likely to change for turn two, they are missing a big part of the strategy of their character and this game.

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Bharryn wrote:
1.  Complete lack of cover making long reach characters brutal.  If this is the new norm for tournaments, then teams need to plan accordingly.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that felt like this; it seems most the tournament maps so far are essentiall bowls, which makes long range characters (whether they can quickly close the gap or simply attack from far away) devestating. It's really a pity, because it feels like there's a lot of potential for varied terrain with the tiles, but the tournament maps just feel so empty in comparison.

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The last tournament was a huge alleyway and long-range did dominate.


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